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Wednesday, June 25, 2008

Out of the Inbox - Banning Frum creative outlets 


Sent in by a Chaptzem reader

This is a story that I'd think more appropriate for April Fools Day.

A student from a prominent Yeshiva in Boro-Park was rewarded for breaking a pen that was signed by Lipa Schmeltzer. The principal of this school preaches to innocent young pupils about the dangers of listening to Lipa Schmeltzer. It is actually 'banned' to purchase or hear Mr. Schmeltzer's albums.

This is a true story that my 9 year old son let me in on. As a parent who isn't exactly smitten over Lipa I must admit this incident is so way out of line that it really got me thinking. What have our chinuch institutions morphed into? The answer: Fanatic & radical establishments that are clearly delivering very wrong messages to our children. To be rewarded for breaking a pen that was signed by a yid? I know there are plenty of bad yidden out there but please....this is bordering on insane.

Praying For Better Times

Comments:
This is pure fanaticism and what these so called Rabbis don't understand is that this leads to kids going of the derach.

 

good morning america

 

the only thing you can tell your children is that m.b.d. copied 2 songs from the goyim:yidden and daddy dear.
dont go busy with lipa!

 

Breaking the kids pen?
Was it a Mont Blanc or Parker?

 

I respectfully disagree. The torah would kill someone for innocently desecrating the shabbos, oy the death penalty, but would only provide monetary fines for blinding another Jew or raping a Child, what hypocrisy. The Torah has conservative values in some instances and liberal values i.e. burden of proof. The torah is more then just love your neighbor as yourself, that's christen and modern orthodox values, orthodox Jews do not Cherry pick.

As we all know stars are called idols, because people idolize them, so breaking a pen that was signed by another Jew, but in the capacity of an idol, should be Broken. I am not sure if Rabbi Lam or Rabbi Y.B.S. would agree, but the Chasam Sofer who was at the forefront to fight enlightenment used extremism when needed to fight it.

Of course I am not saying that breaking another Yids pen without permission should be allowed without a psak of a Rov, with consent or if it's yours why not.

 

why do i hate how the rabbonim / "askonim" handled the concert banning, and at the same time hate how lipa schmeltzer manipulates everyone? am i just a total cynic, or does the whole lipa affair just stink of a few "elites" dictating to the unintelligent masses (be it through a kol koreh or a song) how to live? does anyone feel me?

 

To Anon at 12:00. "The torah would kill someone for innocently desecrating the shabbos". That's Apikorsos. Since when is a SHOGEIG Chayiv Misah. And have you ever heard of "Vshutu Haedah Vheetzeeluh Haedah.

 

I object (mocheh) to the Blogger who wrote.that the Torah is Hypocracy (afro LPumei). The Torah is the source of wisdom and if we don't understand it that is our problem not the Torah's.

BTW I am not particularly a
Lipa fan but I cannot imagine what's so terrible about listening to his tapes. He happens to be a very fine gentlemen and a big Baal Chessed

 

To anon 12:00pm:

"Love your neigbor as yourself." or "that which you hate, don't do to others" is the essence of Torah - not "christen" theology (I know it's a big word - look it up in "vebsters") as evidenced by the Gemara in Shabbos (Daf 31a)that tells of Hillel's interpretation of "Kol HaTorah Kula minus the "commentary".

Furthermore, while Chillul Shabbos B'shogeg is of course not subject to the death penalty, even an intentional desecration was hardly punished by death as there were so many variables in place (which you might have been privy to had you opened a Sefer once in a while instead of hocking around BP all day like a loser, pretending that a beard and payos makes you frum.) In fact, the Gemara says that a Bes Din who executed once in seven years- and according to another opinion - once in 70 years, was considered a "murderous Bes Din" (Mishnah, Makkos 1:10).


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I respectfully disagree. The torah would kill someone for innocently desecrating the shabbos, oy the death penalty, but would only provide monetary fines for blinding another Jew or raping a Child, what hypocrisy. The Torah has conservative values in some instances and liberal values i.e. burden of proof. The torah is more then just love your neighbor as yourself, that's christen and modern orthodox values, orthodox Jews do not Cherry pick.

 

nowdays too many people go over the top for the most crazy things in the world i think lipa should go and sue this menahal

 

As a parent of a non-frum child, I agree with the writer of Banning Frum creative outlets. The frumer than frum Roshei hayeshiva ban all activities and stifle our children. My son would most probab ly still be frum today if they would not have stifled him. Not to mention the Mashgiach who told my son it is Usser to smoke, and my son when he caught the Mashgiach smoking was the next day thrown out of Yeshiva

 

The one that wrote about mbd , they don't let lipa and not mbd.

They teach our kids today always what not to do Its crazy they should teach them what they should do. so much "no's" .

typical satmar oh i know i went there.

 

Hello Taliban!!!!

 

Being a Poshitin Yid i would like to share my thoughts with all of you.

As I finished reading the atrical, i felt bad for this young student.

I was sunday in Borough Park and had the oppertunity to meet with Lipa Schmeltzer, he was charming friendly and enjoyable to be with.
I did receive a pen (it would be my pleasure to give this pen that i hold dear, to this young student) and had a moment to take a picture together.

The teacher that caused Lipa's pen to break, in my opinion is running away from responsibility.
We all know that there is a great problem with the youth. It doesnt matter if it is B.P. Willi. Flatbush or Crown Heights.

The parents and teachers (mechanchim) must understand that children dont just go off the derech because they heard Lipa sing a song,

In my opion Lipa deserves a lot more then you are giving him.

Tell me please, do you think that a teenager is going off the derech, because they saw as we all did how Lipa losed so much money because he listined to the rabbonim.

Is that what the kids are learning from him and going off the derech.

His songs tell you to wake up in the morning, not to listen to the yetzer horah, go to shul on time for Shema.

Is that what the kids are hearing from him and causing them to go off the derech

He tells you, you should pick up your hands and have faith (betochin) in hashem.

Is that causing the kids to go off the derech.

Do you know the mesiras nefesh Lipa Schmeltzer had with the ban how much money got waisted and how much money came from his pocket.
Tell me one madrich, mechanich, rov that would do that,
losing personal assests because of a rov's pesak.

How dare this teacher come and say its lipa's fault.

Hey buddy look at yourself before you point fingers at other,
you should be ashamed of yourself.

May i finish and say, Lipa may Hashem grant you hatzlacha merubah in everything you do and may you have "lefum tza'areh agrah, elef pe'omim"

May we all have a wonderful summer;

Mendel

p.s. i would welcome any argument and further give you to understand my point of view

 

STOP RIGHT HERE EVERYBODY


COULD SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY EVERYBODY IS GOING BANANAS OVER A CHILD BRAKING A PEN??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

WAS THE PEN MADE OUT OF GOLD????????????????????????????????


COOL IT, WHATS WRONG I DONT GET IT.

 

fistly, what the yeshiva is doing is Loshon Hara- They need to start focusing on bein adam l'shaveiro instead of being kanaim in bein adam lamakom---maybe then mashiach will come...afterall the bais hamikdash was sestroyed because of this-SINAS CHINAM
secondly,
Frum children need an outlet... or else they will turn to the radio, Tv...or chas veshalom worse! too much restriction will cause children to go the other way..try pulling a rubberband too much and it will snap.
Today we live in a very modern world...everything is available...and that is why we have to provide our children with our own entertainers, and entertainment..or else some children will join the ranks of "at risk" children...and chas veshalom become non frum altogether.
Lipa is a great frum outlet!

You can't ban everything! My brothers used to go to a chasidishe camp...and since playing ball was forbidden they played with rocks and stones... the camp nurse would be in the hospital several times a week with hurt children... rabonim need to be realistic!

 

This is takeh nuts.

Lipa does so much chesed & goes to hospitals to make sick people happy.

Att: Mr. Principal Who Did This

Watch this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gL-ojYyC_yY

 

How do you sign a pen?

 

Where can I get the pieces of this pen? Maybe I can put it back together somehow and keep it. After all, LIPA signed it.

 

The rabi figured it says " PEN YIFTA LAVOVCHAM " you could make out the rest

 

what did lipa change in his cd? nothing!!!!!!!!!
the whole cancelling of the big event was a joke!

 

My first grader went on a trip to the zoo and the Rebbe didn't want to take the kids to see the pigs ("they are not kosher"). Since when is Hashem's creation Assur to look at? We are supposed to say the pig is great but we can't have it.

 

im sure lipa will give the boy afew more pens plus a picture
does anyone know the boy? any of us lipa fans will help him get new stuff from lipa

 

this person need real help who broke the pen what it a mitzvah to do genava and now he has to pay duble there is no mitzva it part of the ten commendments don't steal (low signov) this rebbi should be put in charim no person should go to this school it is asser gamer to go there its like going to curch.

 

Lipa is great. Anyone that has anything negative to say about him is just jealous!
They do/have done the same thing with every other singer. Ever!
The kids that go off the derech are not interested in Lipa, they are listening to other (goyish) stuff!
& doing other stuff!
Parents, educators, wake up!
Pick up your hands to our Tatteh in Himmel!
Only with true love and care will our children grow in yiddishkeit!
Dont blame Lipa, dont blame the internet!
Look at yourselves and ask what are my kids seeing?
Show them the truth, not hypocrisy.
Show them your love and guide them in a loving manner, because forbidden fruit is always sweeter.
& if Lipa reads this, I wish him the very best.
He is NUMBER ONE!

 

since usher friedmman started this whole mess about lipa, let's ask him, what he thinks about the broken pen........

 

I'd like to respond to those who were complaining about my first post.

Of course when I write “innocently”, I dont mean a Shogeg. I meant as in whom did he hurt, he is secular and no one should impose their views on him. I also need to make it clear that I did not call the Torah CH"V a "hypocrisy", I meant it in sarcastic way. We need to understand that our Daas Baal Habayis is not what decides what is fanatic; it's the Torah that teaches us the real moral values. The values of the Christan/Mondern Orthdox are not facts or constants as they change every few years. The life styles today would be unacceptable for gentiles just 40 years ago, and we will be considered fanatics/primitive in 40-50 years from now no matter how progressive we are. The Torah is a hard fact that has and will never Change. The Talmud writs taht R’ Elisha Ben Aviha (Achar) went off the way because he listened to Roman music. Lip’s “music” (not as who he is as person) (Abe Mlebt, Nisht in Shabbos Gret, Me Shemar Lelomei Die, Rabbisai Mir Velen, Wake Up etc.) are either outright non Jewish music or influenced by there style and titles and are full of Ltzanis.

The last response is to "Modern Orthodox". You have a point Hillel did say that Ahavas Yisroel is the whole Torah, but interesting is that he has written so many laws that do not pertain to Ahavas Yisroel upfront. So obviously it can’t be taken at face value and had a deeper meaning. It's also interesting to note that most people who are always busy giving the "love your neighbor" lectures, would not hesitate a second to testify against another Jew (dina dmalchusa dina, no?) and would rather throw there money to Aids organizations and Black schools, rather then opening up even one organization to help fellow Jews. FOR EVERY MODERN ORTHDOX CHARITY ORGANIZTION YOU SHOW ME, I'LL GIVE YOU 10 CHAREDI ORGANIZATIONS(LOSERS?), SO WHO LOVES THEIR NEIGHBOR? You also seem to be spewing venom against Orthodox Jews who go with Payos as almost every Jew went before the enlightenment years that brought the Modern Orthdox Movement into existence.

As for the fact the Bet Din who killed once in 7 years or 70 years was considered a murderous Bet Din, again you are right that is what it says, however the fact of what they were called does not make any difference to what they were obligated to do if in fact there was proof. I do mention that the Torah has a very high bar in the burden to show proof. It is also important to point out that what the desecrater deserves is not in question and versus the other penalties provided for other offences, in the culture we live in, would be viewed as pathetic.

In regard to what is wrong with Lipa, that is up to Mechanchim to decide and I think it was universally accepted in the Orthdox community that he has a bad influence and has become an Idol.

There is new book on the market which you should all read. The title is “The Torah is Not Hefker” by Rabbi Luft. You will understand what is wrong, not with Lipa, but with his songs after you read it.

 

Maybe some of you could use that pen, or any pen for that matter, to spell correctly. When you can't express yourselves, either by writing or speaking properly, it makes youe message less effective.

 

As written as a geader to this post "This is a story that I'd think more appropriate for April Fools Day."

I am just wondering when these rabbi's are going to ban living in Long Island because the electric company happends to share the same name as this popular singer (am i allowed to mention his name??)

 

As a "Modern Orthodox" reader of this blog, I was particularly amused by "Annonymous 12:00PM's" comments about "christen" and modern orthodox values. Besides being clearly illiterate you also obviously have no clue about Modern Orthodox values. Considering all the nonsense I see here about banned concerts, and other incredibly ridiculous things that most people would consider utter nonsense, I wonder if any of your readers have a clue what those among us that are not from your community but daven with a minyan daily and consider themselves shomrei torah umitzvos, and just as orthodox as you, think of what's written here. Some of us have jobs (I read this blog on my lunch break because I find it so entertaining) and actually contibute to society, as apparently so many that write here, but not all of you as a group, don't. To Annonymous 12:00 who can't even spell Rabbi Lamm's name correctly, I would strongly suggest that a bit of tshuva might be in order for besmirching the name of someone who probably forgot more torah in the last 10 minutes than you'll learn in a lifetime!

 

This whole episode is nonsense. The Rebbe doesn't have to like Lipa, but, he doesn't have to give the boy kudos for breaking a pen from Lipa. It is not idol worship to have a pen with someone's name on it! It is up to the boy's parents to instill proper values in their children and it is up to them whether or not to endorse Lipa, not the Rebbe. I personally think Lipa is a very nice person, with good midos and talent that Hashem endowed him with, to spread simcha among us.

 

As my rabbi said, if you ban concerts they'll just go to the movies. This is clearly a case of hamachmir yachmir le'atzmo- it's better not to listen to such music, but the masses can't handle the ban.

 

talk about "goyishe music" The infamous Dedi Graucher sings Shema Yisrdael to the tune of YOU TAKE MY BREATH AWAY by the nude punk new wave band Berlin. All of you so called rabbis are doing more damage to these pur souls than 9Inch Nails, GNR & JayZ put 2gether

 

Lipa looks like a baby. id put him over my knees and prak him. maybe all you guys looking at the intervesh deserve the same punishment.

 

@ anonymous 2:21
"actually contibute to society"

Everyone contributes to society. Some contribute to the jewish society, e.g. through study at a kollel, others contribute to the goyish American society. The latter is hardly better, is it?

 

To Annonymous 10:56: In your world it's Kollel or goyim and nothing in between. I guess that leaves out the thousands of individuals that daven with minyan every day, set aside time for learning and provide for their spouse and children. I've always found that the erliche yidden that truly learn in kollel instead of taking up space and bleeding their father in law's resources dry, don't have time to sit on the internet. As I said, I do this on my lunch break or on Sundays, I am assuming that since your post was dated on shabbos morning this was some sort of an error, but how does such a tzaddik like you find the time away from your kollel learning to sit on the internet and comment on the "modern orthodox!"

 

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