Wednesday, September 26, 2007

An open letter from a Lubavitcher Chossid in regard to the Simchas Beis HaShoeva ban


As a Chabad chossid myself, I am embarrassed that Chabad seems to be ignoring again, as usual, the opinions of the non-Chabad rabbonim.

Why do we forget that we are fellow Jews who should follow the recommendations and rulings of the gedoilim, and not act so 'above it all' ignoring their rulings.

We preach being modest, and we act stuck up. To be 'in your fact' defying the rulings of gedoilim, just because they are not Lubavitch is separating ourselves from klall Yisroel.

We need to learn to respect other opinions and rulings, and not making light of the words of today's gedoilim just because they are not Chabad.

Maybe it all started when some ignorant Chabad 'chassidim' started saying 'we are the only Real Chassdus' and all the rest are not real Chassidim.

That horribly insulting concept, shows the ignorance and blinded attitudes of our current leaders who allow this kind of thinking to proliferate.

We are Chassidim, yes. We are Chassdim of a Rebbe who was a great godol and tzaddik. However, there are dozens of other Chassidisher Rebbes and Rabbonim today whose words we must not make light of.

We also must stop talking about the Rebbe as if he was the leader of all Klall Yisroel. While he was alive, he was 'one of many' gedoilim, and certainly did not represent the majority.

To keep repeating this shtus is to continue to insult the Chareidi world.

When are we going to show the ahavas Yisroel that we preach?

Are not other Chareidim as important as thost whom we approach for mivtzaim?

We continuously slap other Chareidim, yirai shamayim, in the face, ignoring them as though they are meaningless.... maybe it is because we do not currently have a leader. Our Rebbe, Olov Hasholom, was niftar, and we are without leadership.

I cannot believe that the Rebbe would condone this current haughty attitude of ours. And... if you would succeed to convince me that he would, I would leave Chabad, for that is wrong.

Chabad is not the only acceptable form of Yiddishkeit.

Chabad is NOT the only true chassidus.

Satmar, Munkacs, Ger, Bobov, Skvere, Kloisenberger, Skolen, and many others are also TRUE CHASSIDIM, and TRUE CHASSIDUS.

If a godol disagrees with Chabad, is does not mean he is a misnaged.

We keep showing everyone how great we are by how many people we drag into our Chabad Houses, and how many Chabad Houses we build all over the US, etc., ... But we never stop and praise these other Chassidim for the Tzdaka and Chessed they are doing that is beyond any in the history of Yidishkeit, or for the wonderful Yeshivois and Moisdois they build, and for the amazing kehillois of theirs that are thriving and growing beyond imagination.

We are not the only ones doing wonders... look around us!

We put these wonderful Chassidim down with snide comments, and ignorant remarks. That is horrible and bad enough. But this increased ignoring of their rulings is abominable.

I am deeply ashamed these days to be a Lubavitcher Chossid.

Okay... I will not get off my soap box.

Let us all.... ALL Chassidim, those with 'down hats' and those with Shtreimlech, all respect each other and every admire and recognize each others rulings.

Les us all enjoy the Sukkos Yom Tov and have a G'Mar Toiv.

One Lubo who does not spit at other Chassidim, Chassidishe Rebbes, and Gedoilim

You are right. All the other Chassidic groups and their Rebbes have no problem respecting each other , even marrying each other etc. Yet Lubavitch never fit into that mo;d. It was always Chassidim versus Lubavitch, instead of just Chassidim.(As long as I can remember, over 50 years, there was always this divide)Now there is the additional problem of some people calling the Lubavitcher Rebbe , Moshiach, which is unacceptable to everyone except those who say he is the Moshiach.


I do not believe this letter is from a Lubavitcher as different ruling do not mean disrespect. Oned does not say that if for example the Rambam and the Ramban rulings disagree that's disrespect.
Same here.


This letter only serves to bring at negativity. Instead think positive. All groups have there own Rabbonim and as in all cases what each person should do is what there Rav instructs them.


Listen The Main Point Of The Letter Is Correct But I'd Like To Bring Out Two Points. One That I'ts A Lie To Say That I'ts Only Lubavitch Vs. Chassidim It Has Been At Same Time Chassidim Vs. Lubavitch And I Personally Think It Was Started By Other Chassiduses. Now My Second Point Is That The Rebbe Had A Different Point Of View Regarding To Be Mekarev Other Yidden Than Other Chassidim (Which By The Way Does Not Mean At All That The Other Rebbes Were Against The Rebbe On The Contrary But Thats A Different Topic) So I'm Inclined To Beleive The Rebbe Would Say To Carry On Whith The Simcha Beis Hasheiva (Which There Is Nothing Wrong With It).


It is amazing that the Lubavicher Rebbes had almost all the other dynasties in their blood, until the last 2 that is. Since even before the war, the movement did an amazing job separating themselves from Klal Yisroel, almost as good as another group did some 2000 years ago. Why? Do they really feel they are so much better? Or is it an inferiority complex, for letting yours see some other ways of Avodas Hashem may have them, cholila, become followers of another Gadol? From an analysis of their propaganddistic media, and from the cult built about their leaders as the ONLY true followers of Moshe Rabenu, let alone Besht and the Arizal, the facts point to the second option, quite unfortunately. If one is afraid to face the frum Jewish world around him, lest he leave a "movement", that alone defines it as a cult, and shows an immense degree of insecurity in his own variant of the "truth".


your full of drek.
it has nothing to do with not listening to gedolim.
it has to do with following the directives of the rebbe.

mr chabadnik, do you learn 3 chapters of rambam a day?

another rabbi said that you shouldnt.

to whom are you a chasid of?
how do you listen and follow?

about marriage.
people marry people with similar back grounds and customs.

when was the last time a litvak married a satmar?

its the customs
thats all.

gut yom tov yeidden.


since when does a chabadnik have to listen to a posek of another opinion?
the rebbe was always for simchas beis hashoeiva and now we should listen to some godol!?
besides, the rabbonim in yerushalaim are on a banning spree
they're the Best Rabbonim that can be bought(not saying they take bribes just they're not very in tune with whats going on in the olam and they listen to people with self interest.


you're probably a snaged out lubavitcher otherwise you wouldn't be ashamed. the Rebbe N"E was the Nasi Hador so dont give us your Godol crap
And about moschiach, if anyone before gimmel Tammuz thought the Rebbe wasnt moshiach they were either crazy or real (unfortunate) misnagdim


its been like this in israel for
years with the backing of other gedolim comes this year with some new guys trying to get power both sides are not right you shuld look at both sides and then talk
good yom tov



Sorry, Folks, but though I am a Lubavitcher, I am not a Yichee nik.

Though I loved the Rebbe Olov Hashalom, I know we are now 'Leaderless' as far as having read 'Posek-Level' leadership.

There are many areas were we have ignored the vast majority of the gedoilim of today's dor.

One of the first things that comes to mind is the shratzim in the NYC watter supply. Virtually all of the chareidi poskim say the water is ossur. We at Chabad come up with silly remarks like 'If the Rebbe drank it, it must be kosher.'

That is, of course, ludicrous. And to learn it out from that concept that a Tzadik is protected from an avaira is equally silly.

When other gedolim come out and say, 'Our past parents and rabbonin have truly drank water that was ossur, because we did not know then what we know now.' They are being honest, bold, and correct. For us to ignore them is wrong.

The same goes for the Shailech from Indian hair. We now know from the gedolim who sent emissaries to India, that the first rabbonim who published kuntesim being mateer this hair were incorrect, and that the hair from India is truly Takroves L'Avoda Zara, and ossur b'hanaa.

What do we hear from our 'leadership' .... well, they are misnaggdim, the Rebbe wanted all to wear shaitles, and we see there is a heter... look here at the heter ... ignoring the fact that the kuntres of heter came out before the true investigation.

These are just two things out of many that come to my mind.

No, I will not identify myself, out of fear of reprisal. If you are really a Lubavitcher, you understand this.

and, yes, too, I have seem some conversions that might have need some better chakira ... though I am not ready to say they are invalid. I respect this beis din's decision, even if I feel they should have been more careful.

However, we do tend to ignore the rest of Yiddishkeit, and ignore the fact that they have some true monumental geoinim and poskim, and large batai dinim, and we ARE obligated to pay attention to them and not to spit in their faces.

Do not say that if the Neturai Karta is against Chabad then Chabad should be good.... that is foolish.

Chabad IS GOOD Even though the Neturai Karta is gainst us... Good, yes, BUT NOT PERFECT.

As far as Ramban and Rambam, or Hillel and Shamai ... a machlokes between genuine gedolim is often l'shaim shomayim and is respectful.

However, come on folks, we have no one in the Chabad community who ranks up there today. Today's gedolim are not in Lubavitch. Let's be honest and face that. Oh, we do have some strong talmidai Chachomim, but not on the level that they should be spitting in the face of the majority of the Charaidei world.

And... how about our Mikvaos. We hold from the bor al gabai bor mikva, and to us it is a hiddur. Great. However we need to respect the fact that other gedolim do not hold that our mikvaos are even kosher.

Sure it is fine for us to have our mikvaos, but if we come into a community are are a minority, and build a mikva, especially if we collect funds from all over the community, should be not respect their needs, and provide the one extra side bor that would make it kosher and mehudar to all?

I know of a situation where a man volunteered to pay the $20,000 extra for an extra bor that would have made it muttar and mehudar to all. Gues what? The shaliach of that community turned him down. He said, 'I personally think that would be a good thing, but it would be too politically incorrect within the Chabad community. It would make it appear as we concede that the bor al gabai bor is not good enough, and we can't do that.

Then when people in the community find out and are angry, we simply invalidate their opinions by calling them misnagdim.

Or, as one shaliach said, "They just do not know. Bor al gabai bor is better, and that's it." Again, being disrespectful of other opinions.

Do I believe in our Mikvaos? Sure. But that does not give me the right to invalidate the needs of others.

Remember, Chabad may be good, but we are FAR from perfect.

Let's stop putting other down.
Let's stop ignoring other gedolim.

Let's all learn to respect each other. Communities have a right to have their poskim rule against something for their community, and if we are in their community we should try to compromise and be agreeable, not always contrary.

I'm sorry to say this, but, Chabad Today is the most arrogant Jewish group, not allowing ourselves to see outside of our wonderful group.

It is because I LOVE CHABAD, that I want to see us improve.... not that I am against Chabad, chas v'sholom. We have to open our eyes and hearts and see the value in other Chassidim, and yes, even in non-chassidish gedolim.

A gutten yuntev, and a g'mar tov.



Anon 2:08

Thank you. You just proved my point. If I don't agree with that Rebbe was/is Moshiach, or was the Nasi Hador, I am a 'Snagged Out' Lubavitcher, Crazy, or a "Real Misnaged."

Notice the use of the concept of hisnagdus as a dirty term. Like the N word. Is that Ahavas Yisroel? How can anybody be a real Chossid and talk like that about other people? Yes... even real misnagdim...

And, yes, we are Yidden and do have a halachik obligation to pay attention to psakim from others. We can't keep using the excuse "we are doing what the Rebbe wants" to explain and excuse ourselves, and to separate ourselves from Klall Yisroel.

And, yes, I know a chossid, high up in Satmar, who is married to a Bais Yakov girl who is from a Litvish background. She is VERY highly thought of and accepted by all in KJ and Willi, and their children have gotten some really great shidduchim.

Yes, he wears white sox and a shtreimel and she wears only a shpitz & teechel. Nobody in Satmar thinks of her any less, that she came from a Litvish backgound, and here family are frequent guests in the community.

You will find more intermarriages of other chassidim that you would believe.

I have close friends in other groups, but I am a Lubo.

I just want us to look at ourselves with an honest eye and without the arrogance we have been using.

Let us all get along and respect each other ... and be zoiche to biyas HaMashiach, BimHara B'Yamainu


Lubavich apologies:
Too little, Too Late, from Too Few.

Do you recall the run-of-the-mill American asking post 9/11: if Islam is truly a religion of peace, and most Muslims oppose terrorism and are truly shocked at the attack, WHY ARE THEY SO SILENT?

My question begs the same answer.


I dont know who you think you are the rebbe said and emphasizied to dance and rejoice during the days of succos.Now for that reason the other rabonim are complaining is because lubavitch was fist to start simchas beis hashuaivah.This is not the first time that the other rabonim tried to start something against lubavitch thry did the same thing when the rebbe started mivtza teffilin so i dont think a lubavitcher should even think of agreeing with these rabonim.


The author of this article does not sound like a Lubab. When is the last time you heard a Chabadnik use the word Godol?. It's probably a snag trying to make Chabad look bad, with all the negative comments.


refuah shleimah








Why should a Lubavitcher have to abide by non-Lubavitcher Rabbonim? When Ovadia Yosef, a sefardi, declared that no non-Breslovers should go to Uman for Rosh hashana, did all Ashkenazim have to listen? Lubavitchers like everyone else should follow their own Rabbonim.

(No I'm not a Lubavitcher.)


This man who posts this "open letter" is a fraud and not a Chabad Chosid. He uses various keywords in which Chabad Chassidim would use different terms. Makes me wonder whether you are just looking to cause pirud without knowing the details, claming to post a letter from a Chabad Chosid or you are just stam full of crap.


There is no way you are Lubavitch,
as in Lubavitch we generally do not say Gemar Tov.
Sorry you screwed up you sick person. when the "gedolim" banned concerts a few months ago you were most likely the first one saying how stupid and how out of touch they are, however now that lubavitch is involved hey lets jump on the bandwagon and knock them. FYI there were 50,000 people at the simchas bais Hashoeva last night in Yerushalaim. so i guess not to many people listen to "Gedolim" not just lubavitch.
Enough of this hate. lets all grow up and get along.


To all my fellow mishuguyim,

Why don't you all just get a life


Another vote to say that this was in NO WAY written by a Lubavitcher. Next time, try harder and maybe ask a Lubab to check it over and change the terminology that we as Lubavitchers NEVER use!


As any Lubavitcher could tell, this article was clearly not written by one.
This is not even close to the loshon that Chabadniks speak or even write in.
As far as "fearing reprisals" - that is nonsense.
"Yechi niks" - no one says this.
Any chossid of the Rebbe believes that he is Moshiach, for the simple reason that anyone that came in contact with him, was overwealmed by his holy-ness, there was no question. Besides the fact that every chossid has to believe that his Rebbe is Moshiach - Lubavitcher or not.

I have seen and heard with my own eyes, Satmar chossidim saying "Yechi adoneini moreini v'robeini". They too, believe their Rebbe is Moshiach.

As one brilliant person wrote: For people who aren't educated in the matter... its foolish to think the Rebbe is the moshiach VaDaai (for certain) .. But, It's MORE foolish for them to think The rebbe isn't Moshiach VaDaai.


dont you realize that those rabbonim are just finding another excuse to attack Lubavitch, they are jealous of the fact that Lubavitch has so many good ideas. Its merely another political move. Wake up and realize that the world isnt as holy as you think it is.


Do you not all see? You have proved much of what he says. You do not like what he wrote and you attacked him. You not only attacked what he said, but you attacked him.

And, though I agree with some minor points of what his detractors have written, they are not correct.

I am not a Chabad person, but I do know some Chabad Chassidim who do use his phrasing and loshon. Especially those who have friends outside of Lubavitch, and those who went to Yeshivas outside of Crown Heights.

I do not see his letter as negative. I see it as a plea for all to work together and stop attacking and/or ignoring each other.

Some of you paid him back with hate, anger and insulting personal attacks.

I would guess that he is a genuine Lubavitcher chossid who cares about his fellow chassidim, and not an imposter.

Also, if every group followed only their own leadership there would be no halacha for Benai Yisroel, only minhagim/halachos for each group.

He did not say not to have a simchas bais hashoeva. He simply said that chabad was spitting in the face of the rulings of torah giants. Maybe a compromise could have been found... indoors with a real mechitza?

I was at one in Crown Heights a few years ago, and it was NOT properly controlled. It started off nicely, but degraded after much alcohol was consumed, leading to imodest behavior on the part of both women and men.

But, the main point of mine is the way so many of you attacked him. It was like you hated the fact that a fellow Lubavitcher chossid could disagree with the majority in so many ways, and air it in public.

Yes, he embarrassed Chabad.

But I believe he is genuine and his motives were pure.

He did not deserve the way he was treated here.

Thank you for reading this.


You are all wrong. I know who wrote it. He is a SHALIACH. He disguised his style a little, but he does not speak straight Chabad loshon. He also gives a shiur or two outside of Chabad.

And, by the way, he does use the phrase Yechi Niks all the time, and he does say Gmar Tov until Hoshana Rabba.

By the way, his smicha was not from Chabad. I will say no more, because he IS a respected shaliach and is obviously correct about reprisals.


The Litvisher follow Litvisher Rabonim. The Satmar follow Satmar Rabonim, etc. That is how it has always been, and should be.
Especially when this (making Simchas Beis Heshoevah) is not a clear issue of Halacha, rather an issue of "Daas Torah".
By the way, in Crown heights, the mechitza has gotten much better over the past few years. There is a clear separation between the men and women at the place of the dancing. Yes there may be (and there is) mingling outside of this area, just as there is on streets of any neighborhood.




all the mingling is from ppl not from CH. r' elyashiv 'שי sayd when a man was making a mikva with three בורות not to make even one בור על גבי בור.


If we would follow all of the other rabonims rulings we have have never had mitzvah Neshek or Tefilin etc.. or even Kiruv.....


since when did all the other chassidim listen to the lubavicher rebbe?and sont tell us what we can do in our comunity you dont like dont come i see so many non lubavitures at simchas bais hashava and somr look worse the the lubavitcher them selves and if your really a shliach and emmarassed to be a chabad chossid them you should join the kiruv cuz your obvisoly not following the person who sent u and is the backbone of all shluchim and chabad chassidim. andbtw what does "yechiniks" have to do with it?


as jews we have one god. as lubavithers we have ONE rebbe yes that makes us different and im prowed. as for the one writing such a letter if you are a lubavicher do us a solid buddy time to find another group.


"We are Chassdim of a Rebbe who was a great godol and tzaddik" This guy was definitely not a Lubov. I never ever heard a lubavitcher describe the Rebbe as a godol. And if he is aLubov he wouldve learnt chassidus which sais the rebbe is Rosh Bnei Yisroel. This guy is a phony piece of Rubbish. I dont think he fooled anyone


Open letter from a closed mind?

And the post of 9:19, I don't get it. Is it Rubbish Mamash, or was Mamash Rubbish? I can settle for either.


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