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Monday, December 24, 2007

Minkatcher Rebbe holds meeting and flies to LA in aid of Spinka Rebbe

The Minkatcher Rebbe held a strategic meeting with Rabbonim and lawyers present on how to proceed with the Spinka story. At the meeting various strategies were discussed and money was put together for the Spinka defense. The Minkatcher Rebbe then flew down to LA to speak to the Spinka Rebbe and his lawyers about the legal situation.

Comments:
the munkatcher rebbe is #1 in the mitzva of pidyin shvuyim. he helps all sorts of poor strangers with his own personal $!!!
der zchus zul unz alleh bayshtayn

 

May G.d help them. Can someone put out there full names so we can pray for them. That is the most effective tried and proved method for helping our brethren in trouble.

 

kol hakavod to the minkatcher for doing what we should all be doing and may mr robert kasierer or whoever the moser is. rot in hell for ever

 

MUNKATCHER RAV IS DEE BIGEST TZADIK IN OUR GENARATION NO DOUBT

 

The Rabbi's name Rabbi Naftuli Tzvi ben Peril, Gabbi R' Moshe Eliezer ben Ester

 

kudos to the grand rebbi of minkatch

 

The Minkatcher Rebbe is a great man. I hope his reputation does not get tarnished through his association with Spinka and those clowns in LA.

 

Please give credit to who credit is due, it happens to be that Rav Aharon teitelbaum Satmar Rebbe was also involved in putting together a large sum for the bail$$, together Rav Mordchei Meizels from Williamsburg.

 

where was he when his goons beat up naphtuli spiegle

 

Moo'tzoo min es minoi

 

Yes, the Minkatcher, together with Satmar Rabbonim including the rov from BP, raised the money from what I understand.

Both Minkatch and Satmar are known for this great chesed. This is a very good thing. Don't soil this great act with negatives.

I am not an Aharon fan either, but if he contributed to this, give him his share of the credit. No need to drag old "other" stuff into this.

 

The Munkatcher Rebbe did not go anywhere. He is right here in BP!!!!

 

The Munkatcher Rebbe is yuchid bdoiroi in giving of himself for klal yisruel especially in the great mitzva of pidyon shveiim which is a mitzva unlike any other. Very few people want to get their hands dirty with pidyon shveiim as there is no kavod for it and very little tzedaka goes towards it. As Rav Rosenblum of Sharei Yosher told me a while back '' We must daven every day for the Minkatcher Rebbe, Likayem Buni Chachmei Yisruel''.

 

THE GADLUS OF THE MUNKATCHER REBE IS THAT HE IS WILLING TO PUT HIMSELF ON THE LINE EVEN FOR THE LITTLE REB YID WHO HAS NOBODY TO HELP HIM. I HEAR THAT HE HAS BEEN TO COURT MANY TIMES BICHVVODO UVEATZMO TO SHTADEL BEFORE JUDGES FOR ACHEINU BNEI YISROEL. DER ZCHUS ZOL BEISHTIEN.

 

the one who gave the most money from his pocket and put together the rest for his bail was R' AVRUM ARON LESER the bobver rabbis closest person evrybody knows what kind of bal tzidokah he his

 

LESER? R' ARON? NO $$ WAS PUT TOGETHER FOR BAIL. IT HAD TO BE 3.5 MILLION DOLLARS IN PROPERTY

 

It's not a question of giving money. If you do the crime, you do the time!

 

The Rabbi's name Rabbi Naftuli Tzvi ben Peril, Gabbi R' Moshe Eliezer ben Ester

Comment Credit ---This article posted by Anonymous : December 24, 2007 3:50 PM
===================================
His name Naftuli Tzvi ben Peril. Leave the RABBI out same goes for the gabbi

 

In response to "Anonymous" posted at 6:17 p.m.:

TORAH is EMES. If the TORAH says that its a mitzva to free a prisoner, then thats all that matters, not what you think. And with regard to "you do the crime, you do the time", thats up to the bais din shel maloh to deal with, not you or me. Our obligation is to help our brothers in need, and to feel their pain. In the Torah, there is no concept of locking a person up in jail. Obviously, the Torah felt that there is no accomplishment by putting a person thru this cruel punishment.

 

How come nobody on your site knows how to spell English?

 

MI KIAMCHA YISROEL

 

While that is true, it implies that the rules of pidyon shevuim applies
to all who are taken captive, even by lawful authorties for a genuine
crime. I do not believe that such an implication is supported by the
halacha. One is obligated in pidyon shevuim only when the captives are
"starving, abused, naked, or in danger of lose of life" (rambam tzedaka
8:10) and as the Aruch hashulchan notes "this was in times of old and
now in the desserts of Asia and Africa when bandits fall on travelers
and hold them captive for ransom" (YD 252:1).

 

naphtuli spiegle got what he deserved !!! Hes an ois vorf !!!

 

I sure hope part of the discussion at the meeting was how to make major changes in our mentality to avoid such issues in the future, not just how to free those cought this time

 

to 7:13
No concept of jail?
Check Sanhedrin

 

So if this guy is convicted for money laundering and few other major financial crimes, he shouldn't go to jail? Its tax money that he stole from every law abiding citizen and he should be incarcerated if he's convicted. Just because he's the Spinka or whatever, that doesn't absolve him of punishment if convicted.

 

the bail property for the gabbi was put up by a lubavitcher yungerman ,from all the people in la

 

what is wrong with all of you? all of these people, the rabbi, the gabbei, friedman,lazar... the carriers of the money...they all did a bad thing. it makes the 'jews' look bad in the eyes of the world. wake up brooklyn.wake up people. it is bad for the jewish name. dont pray for them, pray for the sake of jewish people in general. those who dont commit crimes!

 

piidyoin shvuim is when goyam chap an innocent yid and hold him for ransom, not when someone is arrested for a crime - this is halucha l'maise

 

I am sorry but if you learn the halucha properly you will see that Mitzvah of pidyon shevuim is even when the person is guilty of his crimes (yes I know one does not understand) and this only makes this mitzvah even harder.

Anyone involved in this mitzvah will get his fair share from the one above.

What is not allowed is one to muser on someone else. I believe that in the chassam soffer’s times they burnt a musser. In this instance the musser helped so many people get caught. I know that he had a big nessoyen (and maybe he even asked daas torah) but to get people on a plane to come to LA and caught is already to much.

 

Im not sure why people here are so concerned about a bunch of guys who broke the law (if they are guilyt, which is probable) just becasue they are rabbis.

If they are innocent, they should have nothing to worry about. The court system here is fair; its not czarist russia or the christian middle ages.

 

Kol Hamisnavail eim Mivuval, Misavail Kimoso

 

i'M NOT SURE IF YOU ARE AWARE OF THE FACT THAT MOST CIVILIZED COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD TODAY, CONSIDER THE SENTENCES THAT ARE PASSED DOWN IN THE US COURTS TO BE HARSH AND CRUEL. A PERSON WHO IS SENTENCED IN THE US CAN SEEK ASYLUM IN OTHER COUNTRIES FOR THE CRUELTY. THE SENTENCE LENGTHS ARE EXTREME COMPARED TO OTHER NATIONS.

 

To Anon 12/25 8:15 -

I have to tell you that justic in America is NOT blind. I was involved in a number of lawsuits over the years and in one of the first cases I was told by my lawyer that we should settle (even though I had a better legal case) because when I get in to the court I will have a hard time because of my levush. I did not belive him got to court and had a hard time - this came up a number of times espcialy outside of Greater New York. Some of these judges are prejudiced against frum yidden don't be fooled by your 5th grade civics lesson.

 

to anon 8:15 dont even say in your dreams that the court system here is fair!!!!!!!! its worse then most democratic countrys for murdering someone cold blooded you can sometimes be off it with as little as 10 years and sometimes even come out earlyer on parrol but on the other hand white collar crimes in the usa and 10 times as woese you will need to pay tens of millions of dollars and get years andyears in high security prison is this our democratic america the one we call malchus shel chesed ????? no way never never go to most eauropean countrys you will see how crazy the american system is

 

Rav Ya'akov Kaminetsky zt'l told a Jewish customs agent:

"Smuggling diamonds in tefillen is equivalent to raising a white flag, approaching the enemy lines as if to surrender and then lobbing a grenade. That soldier has not only perpetrated a fraud on his battalion and the enemy; he has betrayed a symbol of civilization. ... These thieves, by taking a sacrosanct symbol and using it as a vehicle for a crime have destroyed the eternal sanctity and symbolism of a sacred object. Their evil actions may cause irreparable damage to countless honest religious people. Those rogues must be stopped, by any means possible."

One can only guess what Reb Ya'akov would have said about the present case, where according to the government millions of stolen dollars were hidden inside the mitzvah of tzedakah.

 

The American justice system is indeed imperfect, as is any run by human beings. Anyone care to compare it to our present system of batei dinim?

 

1. the court system is NOT fair. usually controlled !!

2. The whole IRS & income tax is unconstitutional !
only non-citizens are liable for income tax
constitutional!!
study the laws !!

the IRS the lost a very big case against 2 offshore investers on 3rd appeal, after being in jail for about 7 years.

3. Even being in jail for one night or 1 hour
is terrible, especially when cause by Mosrim!!!

the term Malchus shel Chesed is another falsehood!!

Pidyon Shivuim is definitely required here also !!

 

All those who problems with American democracy should move where they feel they'd so better.

I'm not paskening any she'eilos here, but the knee jerk "it's pidyon shevuyim" or "it's mesirah" does not always hold true (though here, as a party to the crime, mesirah certainaly applies).

It's clear that certain criminal financial activities (see Rama Choshen Moshpat 388:12) are to be reported to teh authorites, and gedolei haposkim have applied this to other, similar circumstances.

This summer, I head a "Rav" give a "shiur" on the topic, assering everything as many of your commenters would like. The problem is, that his misrepresented many of his sources, mis-cited quotes, and took a number of quotes out of context.

 

Marty Weiss from Los Angeles a Lubavitcher put together the bail package... These are truely the times of Moshiach

 

The whole IRS & income tax is unconstitutional !
only non-citizens are liable for income tax
constitutional!!
study the laws !!

--------
Please cite the source for that stupid statement. Lets see some Regulation or tax case.

 

Marty Weiss and his father R' Berel Weiss, worked around the clock to put together the bail for the Spinka Rebbe and his Gabbai. It makes you wonder where are all the Big Spinka knakers now, like the Bronstein? As always Lubavitcher's are the first to help other yidden when there is a tzoro, no matter which group they belong to.

 

in Response to: Thekvetcher"

As one of those "PROUD GOONS"
Seigel had it coming to him ..he is a Tzdoiky....He goes around BP terrorizing erliche yidden including women and children old and young shouting crazily...

He is pure and simple a TZIDOKY and deserves the same fate as a MUSSER!

 

Marty Weiss put together the bail??????? That’s the biggest piece of hogwash. The Weiss families as well as other big names are staying away from this...

The real Askanim of LA (not the baloney old school ones who only got involved if they could make money off of it somehow) took care of it while the RCC, Chabad etc. are all making quotes to the press of how bad the Spinka are. Its sad and pathetic.

And the RCC has special chutzpah making statements... When a member of the RCC (Rabbinical Council of California) was accused of deviant behavior stretching back for decades... did the RCC come out making statements to the press or even remove him from their clubhouse????.. NO they did not!!!

But when its one of those smelly Chassidim from Brooklyn, then the RCC in all their phony righteousness is suddenly mouthing off. Shame on you Rabbis May, Union and cohorts!!!! Before you make any more statements, take a really good look at all RCC donors and your organizations/shuls donors!!!

Remember... every dog has his day!

 

Hert zich tzi!! I know for fact like today was kratzmach.. That it was Beryl Weiss thru his son Marty that put together the bail package.. Beryl Weiss does not shy away from a good fight... And his son is a Leebavitcher chusid...

 

i don't know what is scarier--- the fact that Rebbes could be drawn into crime; or the comments posted here by 'kdoshim vetehorm' justifyingall economic crime, invalidating taxes etc --- living in the 'it's a mitzva to steal from the goy' mindset... not only can one understand why there is no geulah, but one could see how It Could Happen Here thanks the charedim lidvar Hashem....

 

How about we look at the shoresh of the problem? What led the rebbeh to do this geneivah? as the gemoro in kedushin says "kol sheainoi melamed es benoy umnus milamdoi listos" ande rashi zatzla explains kol sheano melamed es benoy umnos kieloi milomdi listis. Until we get out of this kollel mentality and start honoring an honest days work like we did in the times of the amorim, tanoyim, rishonim and acharonim we will be plagued by mitzvos habaim baaverah and this kind of rationalizing. we have become a society bereft of values and only have meaningless rituals. shimu nuh raboisai. WAKE UP YIDDIN!!!!!!

 

To Anon 8:25 PM,
I don't know what you've been smoking, but it surely seems good. When or where did Chabad give any quotes to the press about the Spinka case?? Show me one article!!! Everyonne in L.A. knows that the Weiss family were the most instrumental in releasing the Spinka Rebbe on bail. Just go and find out where the Rebbe, Gabai and family are staying this whole time!!!

 

Wouldn't it be better to devote all that money where it really is needed, in our communities? We have too many people going hungry; give the money to them.

 

Anonymous of December 25, 2007 4:26 AM

You are 100% correct. Pidyon Shvuyim is a chiyuv even for a convicted Jewish criminal who is guilty.

Lo kol skain for somone only accused.
and there is nothing I can think of at the moment lower than a mussar.

NOBODY who is saying it is out job to get them out is saying that criminal acts are okay. We should not be doing illegal things. But, we may also not assume that just because they arrest someone, with a presumedly good case, that he is guilty. That is ossur. Even if convicted, it may not be emes.

THere are Yidden in US prisons today who "took the rap" for someone else, to protect a loved one, or other reason, whether it makes sense to you or not.

There are Yidden in US prisons today who were convicted on false testimony, and trumped up evidence.

Even those convicted, must be considered by us to be innocent unless found by a BEIS DIN to be guilty!

I personally know people in KY who use a significant part of their personal income doing whatever they could for Jewish prisoners... most not even frum prisoners.. just fellow Yidden.

Funny, Satmar Chassidim do not believe one needs to be one of their own to receive their help.
Minkacz the same way. Great in
helping others. Most Chassidishe groups are active in this sort of high chesed.

People in prison helped by Chassidim, Satmar and others, include people in prison for alleged murders & homicides of all types, as well as other criminal actions. Yes, there are Yidden who are in prisons for those things. Most not chareidi Yidden, but fellow Jews.

But why when these Chassidim are arrested for any reason, people say bad things, assuming guilt, and wishing them to go to prison. Is this the way a Yid should feel about another Yid?

When you are arrested, the Chassidim will be there to help you.

And, yes, even the Lubos (whom I was not including above) have their own Aleph Institute that helps many prisoners.

It is our obligation.

 

The point I think some are trying to make is STOP SNITCHIN!!! ( AS THEY SAY ON THE STREETS OF BROWNSVILLE NY)

 

"2. The whole IRS & income tax is unconstitutional !
only non-citizens are liable for income tax
constitutional!!
study the laws !!"

What planet are you living on? Here's the text of the 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

You may need to have someone translate it for you, but the Amendment specifically allows Congress to create an income tax. No one, except for a few tax-protester mishugooyim, will tell you otherwise.

 

maby he didnt do it

 

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