Chaptzem Blog!      

"The mechutanim had picked out the most expensive hall, furniture, musician, photographer and badchen that money could buy. ... I was completely pressured and almost forced to comply with these demands, lest someone chas veshulem make a fuss and risk potentially breaking up the shidduch. ... The mechutanim don't want to hear about helping the couple at all. They say I promised so it's all my obligation and not theirs."

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This sounds as though it could have been written by Ehud Olmert.

 

This is a complete sickness that the frum community has. Firstly, each new couple and set of mechutanim are unique and should never have to commit to supporting the couple in. This is almost as I'd society is blackmailing the parents. Furthermore, this "custom" that the girls parents are responsible for the wedding is absurd. The wedding plus "support" should be divided fifty/fifty.
But the biggest chutzpah of all: that they are not paying a dime and they have demands??!! They shouldn't even be able to choose the toilet paper at the hall.
Author, I know its a delicate situation and you don't want to risk your daughters Shidduch but I personally think its better to hammer these issues out now, before the wedding than to hold a grudge for the rest of your life. Go back to the bargaining table and state your demands. Besides with parents like that, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Knowing that, you can be more aggressive.

 

I fail to see how you are a good businessman. Even if you agreed to support the young couple for three years, what does that have to do with the wedding? If you agreed to split everything, then you have a equal vote with your mechutan. If you did FLOP, then why did you pick an expensive hall? if the mechutan wants to spend his money, fine, what gives him the right to spend YOUR money?
B"H my wife and I have married off three children. If you sit and TALK to your mechutanim, it all works out. If the boy and girl are right for each other, everything goes well. Do not be afraid to say, " I'm sorry, but I cannot afford it". If your mechautan is a gvir, and wants fancy, fine. Pay what ever YOU AGREED TO, and then let him do what he wants. It is better to give the children the money to live on, then blow it on three carving stations and two sushi tables. You can still make a balbatishe wedding and NOT spend tons of Money.
Children learn from their parents. While I am sure you have a fine son-in-law, what kind of middos did he get from his parents, if the can do this to you? and if the chassan would let a shidduch go because of a musician or badchan, what kind of a person is he? and if his parents would let it go for the same reasons, what kind of people are they ?????

 

You only have yourself to blame. What do you mean "they picked out the most expenseive..." You choose wahtever you are paying for. It would seem to me that you were, in effect, looking for mechutanim from a certain socioeconomic sphere...well, be careful what you wish for, sometimes wishes come true.

P.S. There are ehlicher frum reasonable mechutanim out there, they're just not always driving the fanciest cars. It's up to you.

 

JUST SAY NO !!!!
AND BREAK OFF THE SHIDUCH
IF YOU DON'T PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN PEOPLE WILL WALK ALL OVER YOU.
BELIEVE ME ALL IS BASHERT FROM ABOVE
NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU DO, OR DON'T SPEND,,
PEOPLE WILL HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR YOU IF YOU STICK TO YOUR GUNS
I'TS ABOUT TIME PEOPLE HAVE SOME B;ITACHON
AND TRY NOT TO LIVE UP
WITH THE JONES'S

 

You need to figure out what you can reasonably pay for and tell everyone that you will only spend as much as you reasonably can. This won't make you popular. Your mechutanim will probably complain but they are acting unreasonably. If these things were so important to them they should help with the costs. You can't worry about what your mechutanim think. You just have to do what is right by your daughter and future son-in-law.

 

i say that if the mechtanim dont come to a compromise then stop supporting them after a year and take the rest of the money and help your son find a Real livly hood or put him through school.

 

Perhaps you have a Rov/Rabbi that you can seek advice as to what to do.

There are many Orthodox Rabbis that tell their followers NOT to spend a fortune of money for weddings, Bar Mitzvahs, etc. They actually set guidelines as to how much money should be spent on a hall, flowers, musician, etc. They even tell you which hall, band, photographer is the cheapest.

 

tell your son-in-law to get a job.
there is no reson why you should support them.

 

Your mechutanim are DEAD WRONG FOR picking out the most expensive hall, furniture, musician, photographer and badchen that money could buy an ASKING YOU TO PAY IT ALL WITHOUT THEIR NOT CONTRIBUTING A SINGLE DIME TO THE COST.

These people are taking advantage from you. YOU MUST NOT ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN.

You must break the relationship because all h-ll will break loose later on, once you're married. You're not going to hear the end of it. Jump while you're ahead for your benefit. Be the winner and drop out of the relationship while you can.

Remember there are other fish in the sea.

Wishing you only the very best of Hatzlacha and Bracha in whatever decision you make.

May your daughter's wedding be in a Mazeldik Shaah and it should be a binyan adai aad with whomever she marries.
May Hashem

 

First of all, Rabbosai, it seems that his daughter is already married.

Second, be careful what you wish for is right! A lot of it is status.

 

We are our own worst enemy. Since when is it necessary to make the most expensive wedding? Our parents didn't live beyone their means. So Why us??Because everyone wants to be a fineshmeker. Pple live beyond their means and spend money they don't have in order to be able to impress yeneim. The economy is spiraling into a recession pple are losing their jobs and our spending habits are not being checked.

 

Whatever happened to going to college and then getting a job? I guess that is the real world, not the frum world. What kind of disservice are we doing for our children that they are not taught to be self sufficient?

 

"The mechutanim had picked out the most expensive...I was completely pressured and almost forced to comply with these demands, lest someone...
I had no idea that by promising to support the couple I was completely absolving my mechutanim ..."

Methinks the folks doing the "pressuring" knew they found an easy mark who will take on the load without complaining too much. Some people just need to grow a pair and say "no!". True, the leydigeyers and schnorrers out there will call you a cheap so-and-so because you scrimped on the schmorg, hired a 1-piece band or invited less than 150 guests. Well, the tables should be turned on them, IMHO. Let them fork over some hard cash instead of $0.02 in advice if that's not good enough. Otherwise, lozein gei pfeiffen!

BTW, if your potential inlaws are so callous with your finances now just what do you think your new SIL is going to do to your daughter 10 years and 6 kids from now?

 

When my daughter came of age I got a call from a Shadchan with an excellent boy but I will have to support for 5 years. I told her "go look for another sucker" and I hung up the phone. BH I married of 4 children in 2 years without any support after the wedding. We split everything 50/50 did the Chasuna mall,cheapest hall Ateres Shlomo,etc... was very balibatesh without killing ourselves. Remember if they can't support themselves they are not old enough to get married.

owl said"The mechutanim don't want to hear about helping the couple at all. They say I promised so it's all my obligation and not theirs."
Mechutanim from Hell, I feel very sorry for you

 

tell your daughter to get a job

 

Machatanim are dead wrong for picking out the most expensive hall, furniture, musician, photographer and badchen that money could buy and expect you to pay for it all without their contribution of any kind.

If you have a Rov/Rabbi perhaps you should seek their advice as to what you should do. There are many Jewish sects in whom their Grand Rabbi forbids their followers to make expensive weddings, bar mitzvahs, etc. They actually set guidelines as to how much one should spend on a hall, musician, photographer, etc. They suggest which is the cheapest hall, musician, photographer, etc.

These people are taking advantage of you. You must NOT allow this to happen.
Break up before it’s too late. There will a lot of h-ll later if you don’t pertaining to this matter. Remember there are other fish in the sea.

 

Dear Mechutin,

There is no reason to beat yourself up on past events. Additionally, it is not certain that what you made the wrong decision. You chose not to introduce difficulties and found a nice young man for tour precious daughter. Perhaps it will be a financial burden and compromises might be necessary. You might need to cut back on clothing, vacations or going to the country. Ultimately, you chose what is important to you and there is no reason for regret. Perhaps in the future you will chose to interact differently with your Mechutunim. But for now, relax, enjoy your children and trust in Hashem. “מאן דיהיב חי' יהיב מזונא”.

 

This sickness is, unfortunately widespread.

The Satmar Rov (well, one of them) has recently introduced a multi-paged
document, that the mechutanim are to use BEFORE finalization of the shidduch. This form has all these areas covered, with a place to fill in the budget for each item, and the agreements of both side.

It has places to check:
___ Not a deal breaker
___ Yes, a deal breaker
___ Amount to spend
With blanks for each side's opinion.
Then the two compare, and compromise.
This is to avoid exactly what you are going through.

It could be the shaddchan built your financial situation up way to high in their eyes, and maybe they think you are a gazzillionaire.

They may have no concept of your circumstances. They actually may believe that anything cheaper will be insulting to you.

These "Negotiations" should take place before the "vort" or "L'Chaim" to avoid "assumptions"

In your case, in my opinion, YOU need to call the Chosson, Kallah, and the Chooson's parents together for a meeting, and explain just what you wrote here on this blog.

If the Chosson is the right man for your daughter, he will understand, and he and his family will make appropriate adjustments to the plans.

If they refuse to adjust the plans, than you have a decision to make. Either way you decide will be unpleasant. To kill the shidduch at this point would hurt your daughter, however....

To simply cave in and pay for everything would hurt both the chosson and kallah also, as it will not teach them about reality and how to get along in the real world. In fact, it may make the chosson believe that you may extend the 3 years support beyond the 3 years.

Also, if they do not compromise, your daughter will have a really horrible thing to throw up in the Chosson's and Chosson's family's faces when she gets mad. ... and, if there is such stubbornness, there will certainly be anger.

It can hurt/kill their marriage.

I believe you MUST have a meeting, and be honest. It can be said lovingly, but firmly, that you are not willing to pay for all these things. That if they insist on top-of-the-line features/items, etc., then they need to chip in.

Maybe set a total dollar limit.
Let's say $XX,XXX.XX on the Chasuna, and on household things.

Tell them that is all you are willing to pay, and that they may use those dollars towards whatever they wish, but to not expect you to fork over more.

Do NOT sign any contracts with the Chassuna Hall, without all numbers filled in. Also make sure they know the maximum... in writing!

Also, since the chosson and his family seem to have some crazy expectations, MAKE IS CLEAR what your support will entail. Tell them EXACTLY how much you will give them per month, and do not give them a dime more.

Keep your word on this, or they will never grow up.

 

The problem probably started when this guy's daughter was still in school. Obviously the school and seminary to which he allowed his daughter to go to put out others with similar values. So, it should come as no surprise that the universe of shidduchim that would be rhett would include these types of Mechutanim. After all, what's so magic about the number "3" (years). Boys, girls, and their parents should start out with the baseline number of "0" and then negotiate any support from there.

So, I have no pity for guys like this who buy into the system up until shidduchim and then all of a sudden act surprised that they are being taken for a ride. Also, anyone who even includes the word "badchan" in the chassuneh niceties should have their head examined.

 

Um, this letter sounds a tad fishy to me...is this man looking for advice? If this letter is indeed authentic than perhaps Mr. Green Stuff oughtta consult with a really smart person about this, not readers of a blog. The reason being that everybody comes from very different circumstances & places, this is an extremely individual matter.

Personally, as a fairly decent girl on the market, I must say that the parents of todays girls have to dig deep into their pockets for a good boy. It is common to pay 50/50 on a wedding put the problem arises after that: Promising 2-3 years of support----thats the problem. And what irritates me the most is when these 'top' boys actually marry. 85% of them spend more time on coffee breaks than learning in Kollel.

Mr. Green Stuff: Don't fret. Chap a visit to that clever uncle or friend who knows your situation and seek to solve this in a calm way. Don't worry, Hashem helps those who help themselves.

You are a great father who has only the best in mind for his daughter.

Good Luck

 

to anony 1/8/08 @ 1:09pm

Are you sure you are not the mechutanim of this poor fellow? You certainly sound like it. If you are, tell your son to immediately get a job and stop sponging off his in-laws. And as for you, be a mensch and start paying your fair share. You know what they say, the apple does'nt fall far from the tree... that's why I reccomend the girl's father to look elsewhere for a shidduch...

 

get out fast

 

just pay it so there should not be any shalom bais problems

 

"The Satmar Rov (well, one of them) has recently introduced a multi-paged document, that the mechutanim are to use BEFORE finalization of the shidduch. This form has all these areas covered, with a place to fill in the budget for each item, and the agreements of both side."
Um... Learn to read Yiddish. The document that you refer to was a survey to chasidim so that people could provide input to askonim woking on the takonos, it has nothing to do with negotiations between the Machatunim.
We all should be thanking THE Satmar Rebbe for pushing these takanos with full force. Yamim al yemei melech tosif!

 

75% of chasidisha weddings are schnorred for.

 

This is a very sensitive topic for us fathers of daughters looking for "learning boys". The issue is as follows, someone needs to help them out as they begin thier lives together. Apartment,Health Ins.,car expenses,food and misc.The way of this generation is that the burden lays on the girl's father's shoulders. But here is the secret to support...never offer full support !! Tell the shadchin "we will help them out" Tell the Mechtunim we will pay 1)rent-up to "x" dollars 2) Health Insurance up to "x" dollars 3)$100 per month for car expense. Stipulate how many years you are committing to AND THATS IT!!! The other expenses need to be covered by the girl working, the boy tutoring/side job, chasuna money and the Mechutunim. Squeezing $300-$550/mnth out of the Mechutunim NEVER EVER OFFER Carte Blanche Full Support unless you have an extra $2800/mnth. Make the deal, shut up and go to the chuppah. Keep to your deal but don't check up on the mechutunim (their son knows how to get it out of his loving parents) Mazel Tov. Oh one more thing, do the negotiations directly with the Mechutunim, over the phone and leave the shadchin out-it avoids further misunderstandings.

 

I didn't know my shver reads chaptzem!
Shver: the problem is that you are not machshiv torah and buying your food & clothing is more important to you than supporting your eidem, a ben torah azoi vi es past.
P.S. a new car would be nice.

 

This whole story sounds fishy to me. In any case, as this after the wedding (and the girl is probably pregnant already) and there is not much choice in the matter just say NO. Tell you SIL to get a job as a Rebbi or Mashgiach so he doesn't have to leave the jewish world. When he and the in-laws complain tell them you just cannot afford it and will not take out another loan/mortgage to pay for him not to support his family.

BTW - both my wife and I work. We get wonderful emotional support and babysitting from our parents but do not get financial support. Our parents get along tremendously. I look at our relatives, whose parents are financially involved, and all of their relationships are strained.

 

WHAT IS WITH ALL YHIS 5YEARS .TEN YEARS
WHO BESIDES THE LITVISHE ROSHEI YESHIVA DECIDED THAT WORK OR LEARNING A TRADE IS "YEHAREG VEAL YAVOR"
THEY HAVE DESTROYED THE YOUNG GENERATION AND THEY ARE "OSID LETAIN ES HADIN"
IN EUROPE THIS WAS UNHEARD OF

 

I think most Mechitunim today can write the same story. I heared that that one of the Satmars are making Chasinah Tkunas, perhaps this will lower the pressure of some low income people.
the way it is now must change.

 

in today's matzav, yes you have to agree to support. these agreements are good till a moment after the chupah, so go ahead and agree to anything get those girls married off.

 

where are the rabonim now? when they see us being held to ransom to marry of our daughters, everyday I look at them,I am pained as they seem helpless. These girls are not allowed to get a post secondary education, they sit and wait. I am afraid that many of our leaders may be called to task in the ola'am ha'emmess

 

You got to where you are in life by asking questions! If this shidduch thing is new to you, you should have been clear, like in any of your "real world" business transactions. When my brother married a Boro Park girl, the girl's parents had demands about buying things for the "kids". Both sides laid everything out on the table, so in the end both sides understood that the girl's parents lived up to their expectations of buying the couch, etc. while the chassan's "out -of-town" parents were rational in their spending; not falling for the Boro Park gashmiyus. Good luck. What goes around comes around. H-shem is looking out for people like you and your sincerity.

 

I'm a married woman. I feel for you. When I got married to a man more religious than me I was given many things I didn't want and frankly didn't really understand. Promised things I didn't need. More people were invited than I knew in my whole life. Even the ketubah became a work of art. Well thanks, but I could of lived with an outdoor event with a few friends and family, a bit of dessert and a bowl of punch. And now my husband thinks of himself as superior because his family paid for and insisted on everything. Know what you getting into and don't assume that there is love, trustworthiness and basic kindness underlying the other family's motives. "Frum" has no meaning anymore.

 

FURNITURE??? Did I read correctly??? Gee Whiz...
When we got married, (except for beds - WITHOUT HEADBOARDS) and a table and 4 chairs for the kitchen, we got zilch.
And let me tell you something, that was 26 years ago, our parents had money and were NOT cheap.

We are more appreciative for that today. There is no halacha that a parent must furnish an appartment.
Here we are a generation later, with three married kids of our own. Each husband works and they have all purchased their own "larger" furniture pieces.

think.....

 

something fishy about the whole deal.since when does the boys side pick the hall.if they picked it let them pay for it.
for those not in the know about the shidduch scene let me fill you in on the latest.Any drek who knows how to hold up a gemorrah right side up is requesting to learn for 5 years. if you are lucky you can get the boys parents to help in the support. if the bochur knows how to drey the grubbe finger he is demanding 5 years full support at $3,000 a month. If the boy is considered a mitzuyin is 10 yeras and up full support. If the bochur is a big masmid but also goes to college at night he can't even get a date with a decent girl. As parents of Bais Yakov girls we are all sick for letting this mishagas go on.Lets not forget that in 2 weeks the freezer opens in Lakewood and a whole new group of extortionists
are hitting the market place.

 

the chasiddim do it much better they give all the good stuff by the wedding like ,furniture,car nice jewlery ,silver ,ect, but after the wedding the couple will now that they are on there owne im not saying they will not help but they will not comit

 

sick world. tell them to kiss your a--

 

Let me be the one to give you a nice story. I am a non-pro Shadchan right now dealing with a

Girl who saved money for 2 years working hard, and will work hard after her wedding to support a Real Learning boy (because she doesn't want to burden her parents with having to come up with monthly paymnts)

and I set her up with a Great Learning boy who WANTS to go to a small (higher paying) Kollel and tutor bar mitzvah kids at night and tutor a shvacha bochur first seder so that his in-laws and parents don't have the pressure of supporting them and this will help him learn better also he says.

This is not something I have every day but their just pleasures to deal with, and I just wanted to tell you all that don't cast all boys and girls aside these Great Kids do still exist! (btw boy went to Normal NY Yeshivas, Girl went to BYA)

 

A little info for those that don't know the numbers.
Baby brings a new set of numbers. Carriage-$1,000,
Crib-$1,000
plus babysitter and more weekly "parnassah".
While I do not think a new Kallah should have to sleep in a used bed-The standards being set today are wrong for most families.

 

I will add my 2 cents.
I have married off B"H 2 children with another in the Parsha.
People are willing ,like myself, to do almost anything to get your children married.
I have taken on another part time job in order to help pay .
Believe me, when you want to see your child married, and the Shadchan, won't talk to you unless you promise full support, you do it.

 

Did you go to your rov about this?

What has he to say regarding such 'rules'?

I guess I was lucky when i got married.My wife's father had ran off with a shickser long ago and my mother in law was in a home.It was therefore up to my parents to dig deep into their pockets and fork out for the most basic of chassanas and BH thats just the way I liked it.

 

You are all missing a major link in all of this.

If the lack of money would be the biggest problem in all of this, that would be livable. It's the lack of Shalom Bayis brought about by innocent children who are being spoonfed in their Yeshivas and Schools, that living any other way than w. husband being in Kollel for numerous years, is inferior to Kollel life.

The kids, aren't equipped to support themselves. Secular education is frowned upon.

All this causes major Shalom Bayis problems. When kids tell their parents how to live their lives, how to budget their money, what they should and should and must pay for, which happens in way too many cases, Kollel is then worthless.

Never mind that a great number of kids after being married and experiencing financial hardship, regret being coereced into it by their schools.

While weddings DO COST A HEFTY SUM, THE COST OF SUPPORTING A COUPLE FOR MANY YEARS IS WAY ABOVE THAT. The difference in cost of a fancy hall and the cheapest hall is about the same as one year support. Today the boys demand five to ten years support! The wedding is a fraction ot the total needed.

In addition, after the support ends, Kollel men have little or no means of getting a job. And all of this contributes to major problems all around.

 

Both the Chasidim & the Litvishe/Yeshivish systems are totally screwed each in there own way. Remember when you buy THINGS U DON'T NEED, WITH MONEY U DON'T HAVE, TO IMPRESS PEOPLE U DON'T KNOW, you are kaput!!!

 

once children become adults they should learn to become self sufficient and NOT ask their parents for a penny.

It's the parents responsibility, especially the father's to teach his son a trade so he can be independent and self sufficient.

It would be nice if you gave any amount of money once they get married but you don't have to.

I know you said that you'll support the children for 3 years, but even that is TOO much.

 

I have the answer. Cancel the Cherem D'Rebbeinu Gershom and allow men to marry two wives. Aside from solving the shidduch crises of to many single girls, it would give the guy's parents two sets of mechutanim to split the expenses 50-50. They could work out an arrangement where each wife could work part-time and the yungerman could sit on his Koilel indefinitely.

 

"I have the answer. Cancel the Cherem D'Rebbeinu Gershom"

Brilliant idea but not a 100% solution for there are 4.2 females for every male in the world. The only reason I could think of is that AL PE TORAH you are allowed to take many wifes. Maybe thats why Yaakov Avinu had 4 wifes. The
.2 he rounded of.

 

money doesn't mean you'll get a real ben toira. That is up to you. How did u raise your daughter. Is she a bas toira. Is her father a ben toira. Think about it. ein mezavgin es haodom elo lefi masov.

 

I'll tell you what I did.

I told my daughter's potential chossanim, that I would help them while he is in kollel in this fashion:

1) He attend half days, and work half days, or any percentage that he was comfortable with... but...
2) I would match what he earned. The more he wanted from me, the more he should earn. (I needed to see those paychecks, and that I would match the gross.)
I would match as follows:
(percentage are of his gross)
1st year = 150%
2nd year = 100%
3rd year = 80%
4th year = 50%
5th year = 50%
6th year = ZERO
3) I needed a "report card" from the rosh kollel/rosh yeshiva or whatever he is called in that particular kollel. I did not wish to pay for him to be lazy.
4) I expected the Rosh Kollel to tell me what he was learning, and I would fahrher him every other Shabbos.
5) They must live of the money from only three sources: Kollel stipends, His work income, and my matching funds. He must not take any government money. He must buy real life insurance, medical insurance including maternity insurance, from the money he is receiving from both sources. He may not put my daughter on Medicaid, or living in Section 8 Housing. They must be self sufficient, and they must live in a 2-BR apartment or home in a safe area.

This may sound harsh, and it did turn away a few potentials.
But, I believe it helped the two of them grow up.

We found the perfect shidduch and he agreed to it.

He learned about 6 hours per day, and worked about 6 hours per day.
He matured and turned into a very responsible father, and I am very proud of both of them.
He now teaches in a Yeshiva in the AM, and has his own business in the PM. and still learns daily.

By the way. I paid for the wedding. But I gave them a bottom of the line budget. I said, I will pay $25,000 number of dollars. If you use it all for the wedding, so be it. If you wish to make a smaller wedding, and save half for furniture, that is fine. But don't spend it all on the wedding, and then ask for help with furniture.
They discussed it, and he told his parents, he wants to keep the wedding at not a penny more than $10,000, even if meant cutting their guest list in half. He used the other $15,000 as follows:
$10,000 in to furniture
$5,000 in the bank for emergencies.
Once he told me he would do that, I knew it would be okay. No regrets. Burich Hashem they are doing wonderfully. Last year they asked me if they can begin to pay me back. I said, no, it was never a load.... help another couple out, or do nice things for others. They are now helping another young couple out, using the same deal.... and they are not related.
By the way, this son-in-law treat me with so much respect, and has thanked me a million times for helping make him a man. I told him it was him all the time. For the ones who turned down the deal did not have what he had.

 

The root of this problem as many people have mentioned is the stupidity that boys aren't allowed to go to college. As someone who just got married and currently in med school, I know first hand how tough it is for people like me. I was looked down upon by my mashgiach in beis medrash because I went to school at night, while my "yeshivish" friends spent the nights smoking and putzing around. They never had to worry about the mashgiach. Why is it that in my class of 50 bochurim in high school, only 7 went to college, and I'm the only one who will be a Doctor. Believe me I was nowhere near the top of my class in high school. The system is screwed up and I hate to say it but it will eventually collapse, it has to. At least I'll a'h be on the other side of the collapse.

 

ANON 3:04

Do you have another available daughter?

 

I love it. the woman works or gets money from family. and i party. o im sorry learning what a life I LOVE IT

 

to Anonymous : January 09, 2008 10:57 AM
of course, thats it 2 wives, now they can be a 2 income family

 

the only way to stop the stupidity is to start boycotting boys and their mothers who have rediculous demands. If we all stick together for a few months and say no to these boys, boy will they start to sweat.
If a shadchen calls and says the boy wants full support, $3,000 a month support,money up front in a bank account,learning for 10 years, etc. etc. politely say not interested and hang up.After a few months of being turned down they will come to their senses that they have priced themselves out of the market and come up with more reasonable requests. Lets try it and see what happens.

 

Here's an idea. Stop paying for them. Tell the bum to get a job.

If he dumps your daughter, it was not meant to be. If he does *anything* bad to your daughter, you know what to do.

Sometimes, in life, even after we have traded in our backbone for a slice of cheese, we search and find it again. Do so.

 

This is pretty funny!

Perhaps we all ought to be reminded that it's the same people complaining about what they have to do for their daughters, who are demanding it for their sons.

 

Fix it now- Tell your BUM Son to get a job and tell your lovely daughter in law and her parents that they're working too hard.

 

Nu, you are in the Yeshivishe velt and you love your daughter and made a commitment to her future husband (Q: What did she see in him anyway?). You should consult a Rav that you respect, not a blog, for advise on what to do/think next. Your machutanim, from what you write, are not warm people and, clearly, you and they have not made a connection and probably never will. So, my dear friend, wake up from your slumber, suck it up, fulfill your obligations and focus on doing all you can for your daughter and HIM as you promised. You may not enjoy the next three years, but you will be a better man for it and nobody will ever have a bad word about you, except maybe that you are too much of a mensch. May you and your famnily receive plentiful blessings of good health and parnossa to sustain and reward you.

 

This is another good reason for getting and staying off the derech. Why not abandon all this idiocy and become a secular Jew?
You'll find the experience exhilirating.

 

Any couple who seeks to "go into learning" should do so with the expectation of ZERO support. Then, let them live on their own and demonstrate their commitment. That will seperate the oichel from the p'soiless. As a Rebbe of mine once said, if such a couple feels that they need more money to live on, then it's time to walk away and do something else. Because, why should they be miserable?

 

Become a secular Jew? No way. All we have to do is encourage education and discourage dependence (Kollel).

Secular Jews have their issues too. They have a way higher percentage of Older and Chronic Singles, only they don't consider it a crisis.

 

anon 3:04 wonderful idea!

 

AM I THE ONLY ONE HAVING PROBLEMS WITH MY DOMINATING SHVIGGER OR ARE THERE MANY OUT THERE HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM
THE POINT IS THEY SHOULD MIX OUT OF MY MARRIAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To Anonymous 9:28- Your reply is SO off topic, you must be out of touch. I wish your Shvigger- Good Luck.

 

I am a working boy,and proud of it.
I don't Bullshit anyone that i'm in yeshivah.
We can make a difference,
If we put out a petition against Girls High Schools that Brainwash girls to take a Yeshiva Boy this hipocracy will end.

 

I have a question that has been bothering me for a very long time.For some reason when you as a parent is in shidduchim for your children, if you have a boy you can demand and expect more for your son and if you have a daughter be ready to spend more.I have married of 5 children B"H 3girls and 2 boys and my policy was and still is "my child is your child and your child is my child" I dont understand why one side should pay more than the other.Is one child worth less?If the boy and the girls families have everything in comman but one side has money and the other doesnt is that a reason to break a shidduch or to make the side go to family and friends and he should go into choyves because one side feels i am not giving more.B"H you found the perfect girl your son will be happy !your doing it for your kids!your spending money on a simcha!Just remember money comes and money goes!I dont think you want to be on the other end!
I brought this up because a friend of mine is in middle of a shidduch and the boys side wants full support he cant afford it and now he came to me for a loan .ofcourse we are going to help him but it bothers me that the boys side has the funds to give extra for the couple .My friend ofcourse is and wants to help the couple but his demands are to much.I just had to write my feelings.I will let you know the outcome of this beautiful situation