Thursday, April 10, 2008
Out of the Inbox - Medicating bums
Sent in by a Chaptzem reader
Hello Chaptzem readers,
Let me start off by saying that I am what people would, and often do, call a bum. I am a bucher that never learned in yeshiva, watched videos and hung out. After a while I stopped davening and would often skip tefilin. I went to clubs and bars and did a lot of stupid things that don't really need mention. I am not bragging nor am I very proud of any of this. This is my reality and I want to be open and honest, at least here anonymously.
Understandably, my parents were completely lost and embarrassed with me. They had no idea how to deal with me or how to handle my acting out. They went from Rav to Rav asking advice on how to deal with their son. One suggested a kabbalist that specialized in ayin haras, another suggested some other such idea. Each guaranteed that their idea was sure to work.
After none of those ideas did anything, finally out of desperation, my parents took me to some expert 'mechanech' that convinced them that since I was crazy the only solution would be to have me medicated. So of course my desperate parents complied. Before I could even figure out what was happening to me, the mechanech had me seen by a psychiatrist for about five minutes, I was quickly diagnosed and medicated.
To be honest, I don't remember much. All I know is that for the next couple of weeks I couldn't think, eat, sleep or focus. I was a complete mess. I never left the house or did anything else for that matter. I would just sit around sluggishly trying to figure what the heck was going on with me.
Sadly, all I remember is hearing how happy my parents were talking between each other that I was so much better now. They would speak about me not going out on the street and embarrassing them anymore. They were overjoyed that they had finally found the solution for their problem.
It wasn't only until I was able to get myself a little together and stop taking the medication, which I did not need, that I started feeling better and began getting back to myself.
I know that there are many people that need medication to survive and should not stop taking it on their own. That was not the case with me. I was being medicated purely as a form of control. My parents could not control me so they just medicated me.
I now live in an apartment on my own and am in therapy. I B"H do not have any psychiatric problems and am not currently on medication, but I still feel it will be many years before I will be able to work through in therapy what I have gone through in yeshiva and with my parents all those years.
I am not sure whether or not I blame my parents at this point. They obviously weren't smart enough to know what was wrong and even more so how to handle me. How to give me what I was asking for with my acting out.
My message to everyone is that when you are a teenager you are not in control and people in power, a menahel, a rebbe, or even your parents when they are desperate, will do things that are not necessarily in your best interest. If you feel that you are being taken advantage of you must seek help immediately. Talk to someone that is trained to deal with people not just someone that says they are good with people and you will find someone that understands you and will listen to you and help.
Comments:
Wait til you're a parent! Parents, generally try their best.
In your case, if there was no abuse, even if you didn't fit in and you didn't want to walk the walk and talk the talk, you obviously did things that really shocked your parents, if they medicated you. At the point that you are able to be independent, live on your own, and pay your own bills, you can be the decision maker. Until then, it would have been in your interest to do as your parents told. You wouldn't have had to be perfect, but not the other extreme either.
By the way, what WOULD make you content and happy? Do you know?
In your case, if there was no abuse, even if you didn't fit in and you didn't want to walk the walk and talk the talk, you obviously did things that really shocked your parents, if they medicated you. At the point that you are able to be independent, live on your own, and pay your own bills, you can be the decision maker. Until then, it would have been in your interest to do as your parents told. You wouldn't have had to be perfect, but not the other extreme either.
By the way, what WOULD make you content and happy? Do you know?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by 
: April 10, 2008 9:37 AM
: April 10, 2008 9:37 AM
Seems as though the medication helped in your case. You say that after the meds, you were acting differently. You should maybe think of staying on the pills and making your parents happy. Isn't that what you were taught as a child in the yeshivas?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 10:08 AM
: April 10, 2008 10:08 AM
Something stinks about the integrity of this story.. .. ….a guy of teen years whom had a mind of his own …..screwed around .. Did things “no need to mention” HOW IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU BE SUCH A TATE’LAH AND BE WILLING TO GO ON MEDICATION!? MAKES NO SENSE.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 10:26 AM
: April 10, 2008 10:26 AM
To be "Happy" as a kid, he probably would have wanted total freedom in his house to do as he pleased. That isn't doable with other kids in the house, nor is it healthy emotionally.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 10:40 AM
: April 10, 2008 10:40 AM
my heart goes out to you. All i can say to u is that you are not alone. I have seen way too many cases of this abuse in my private practice. There should be laws regarding this and parent and so called doctors should be held respionsible. Being a parent is being a parent and not being a baby sitter where they control you to thier needs with out taking the child into consideration.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 11:03 AM
: April 10, 2008 11:03 AM
Dear Teenager,
Yep heard dozens of times, unfortunately. It would be insane for a Mecanoch do performs heart surgery or a knee replacement. Similarly, it would be nonsensical for a Rebbi to fix a broken toilet. Yet for some reason it is understandable that these individuals are experts with mental health when in reality it is as difficult or perhaps even more complex then the medical field. This is not to suggest that there isn't a respectable role for the aforementioned individuals to be involved in the community; they are certainly essential. But the most recognize their limitations!
Also, please do not feel hurt by the foolish and incompetent psychiatrist who labeled and medicated you. Obviously he is not competent, acted unlawful and unethical and should have license reviewed.
Keep up your progress and try to discover the true aspects of Yiddishkeit that are beautiful and enjoyable because true Yiddishkeit is the greatest source of pleasure.
Hatzlacha,
A concerned reader
Yep heard dozens of times, unfortunately. It would be insane for a Mecanoch do performs heart surgery or a knee replacement. Similarly, it would be nonsensical for a Rebbi to fix a broken toilet. Yet for some reason it is understandable that these individuals are experts with mental health when in reality it is as difficult or perhaps even more complex then the medical field. This is not to suggest that there isn't a respectable role for the aforementioned individuals to be involved in the community; they are certainly essential. But the most recognize their limitations!
Also, please do not feel hurt by the foolish and incompetent psychiatrist who labeled and medicated you. Obviously he is not competent, acted unlawful and unethical and should have license reviewed.
Keep up your progress and try to discover the true aspects of Yiddishkeit that are beautiful and enjoyable because true Yiddishkeit is the greatest source of pleasure.
Hatzlacha,
A concerned reader
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 12:24 PM
: April 10, 2008 12:24 PM
my heart goes out to you. All i can say to u is that you are not alone. I have seen way too many cases of this abuse in my private practice. There should be laws regarding this and parent and so called doctors should be held respionsible. Being a parent is being a parent and not being a baby sitter where they control you to thier needs with out taking the child into consideration.
April 10, 2008 11:03 AM
I wonder who you are. are a psychologist a mechanech social worker whatever thanks for your thoughtful words and may you merit to help and save many broken souls.
April 10, 2008 11:03 AM
I wonder who you are. are a psychologist a mechanech social worker whatever thanks for your thoughtful words and may you merit to help and save many broken souls.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 12:49 PM
: April 10, 2008 12:49 PM
Being a parent and doing everything right doesn't guarantee perfect kids. While I don't blame your parents for taking you to a psychiatrist - remember - they asked RABBANIM who did wrong by referring you to the psychiatrist. The psychiatrist shouldn't have been an idiot and should have referred you to a good therapist, but then doctors don't know a whole lot about therapy. Baruch Hashem you are alive and well and just concentrate on your future, rather than dwelling on the past. Good Luck.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 3:25 PM
: April 10, 2008 3:25 PM
Children are not born with an instruction booklet. Parents make mistakes. Perfection is a hope a dream and a illusion. I am happy you are able to heal the wounds you suffered. But please, do not blame your parents. Your Soul has its personalized journey. Each and everyone of us has our own journey. May Hashem from now on only give you peace and serenity, and hope that you will be able to lead the way for other lost souls searching.
A Loving Jew
A Loving Jew
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 3:28 PM
: April 10, 2008 3:28 PM
I am the father of someone just like you.
When my son was in his early teenage years he started straying from yiddeshkeit. I was very hard on him about it. He would stay out until all hours of the night, break shabbos, eat treif etc. He was 17 when he stopped keeping shabbos, and thats when i kicked him out of the house. I felt that I couldn't keep him around because he would have a bad influence on our other children.
Because of this, I felt such anger towards him for embarrassing our family. he gave the impression that my wife and i were bad parents, and i couldn't forgive him for that.
About a year later, i woke up in the middle of the night and i immediately thought him for some reason, and i couldnt get him out of my head. my beautiful little boy, who loved coming to shiurim and minyan with me. I called him up at 3:30am and told him that i need to see him. we met up with each other and talked for almost 4 hours. it was the first time we were talking in almost a year.
And thats when i had my revelation. He is who he is. All i can do is set an example. I cant force him to do anything, or else he will resent me more. I told him to come back home, and that the only 1 rule that i wanted him to keep was to let me know where he was when he went out late at night. I just needed to know that he was safe. I realized that he will not have any different effect on his siblings if he was at home or somewhere else. my other chidren know that that is not the path to take, and they will choose for themselves. i can only daven that things turn out well
its been 4 years since then, and my son is frum in his own way. he keeps shabbos, and kashrus, and he is on a level that he is comfortable with, and the way i see it, he is headed in the right direction.
all i can do is love him for who he is
When my son was in his early teenage years he started straying from yiddeshkeit. I was very hard on him about it. He would stay out until all hours of the night, break shabbos, eat treif etc. He was 17 when he stopped keeping shabbos, and thats when i kicked him out of the house. I felt that I couldn't keep him around because he would have a bad influence on our other children.
Because of this, I felt such anger towards him for embarrassing our family. he gave the impression that my wife and i were bad parents, and i couldn't forgive him for that.
About a year later, i woke up in the middle of the night and i immediately thought him for some reason, and i couldnt get him out of my head. my beautiful little boy, who loved coming to shiurim and minyan with me. I called him up at 3:30am and told him that i need to see him. we met up with each other and talked for almost 4 hours. it was the first time we were talking in almost a year.
And thats when i had my revelation. He is who he is. All i can do is set an example. I cant force him to do anything, or else he will resent me more. I told him to come back home, and that the only 1 rule that i wanted him to keep was to let me know where he was when he went out late at night. I just needed to know that he was safe. I realized that he will not have any different effect on his siblings if he was at home or somewhere else. my other chidren know that that is not the path to take, and they will choose for themselves. i can only daven that things turn out well
its been 4 years since then, and my son is frum in his own way. he keeps shabbos, and kashrus, and he is on a level that he is comfortable with, and the way i see it, he is headed in the right direction.
all i can do is love him for who he is
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 3:40 PM
: April 10, 2008 3:40 PM
To the father "all i can do is love him for who he is"...
...kudos to you! You learned the hard way, but you are now a positive example to others. If you didn't have your relevation, another Jew, Chas v'shalom, may have been off the derech permanently.
If a Jew works and doesn't learn all day, dresses differently, has a different hashkafah (even liberal, but not too liberal), but is shomer Torah and Mitzvos he shouldn't be treated as an outcast and a completely irreligious bum.
And even more so, for someone who is not religious at all, possibly because he/she whent off the derech, that person requires love and respect and courtesy as that is what might bring them back!
Right now, yidden need to get their head out of the sand and out of ther gemarah's to mikarav other Jews with ahava!
...kudos to you! You learned the hard way, but you are now a positive example to others. If you didn't have your relevation, another Jew, Chas v'shalom, may have been off the derech permanently.
If a Jew works and doesn't learn all day, dresses differently, has a different hashkafah (even liberal, but not too liberal), but is shomer Torah and Mitzvos he shouldn't be treated as an outcast and a completely irreligious bum.
And even more so, for someone who is not religious at all, possibly because he/she whent off the derech, that person requires love and respect and courtesy as that is what might bring them back!
Right now, yidden need to get their head out of the sand and out of ther gemarah's to mikarav other Jews with ahava!
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 4:37 PM
: April 10, 2008 4:37 PM
I believe it. Individuality is usually taken as a mental disorder. It is a good suggestion for parents, and a great warning to the kids."Behave or we will make you one way or another." and if the meds don't work its off to tranquility bay for you. Buruch shpatrani miansho shel ze. Live by it.
The problem is that most of the oilem is not educated on the great effect of therapy and the great therapists out there, or they are too embarrassed to try anything being afraid that somebody might find out.
You are absolutely right, you have some big shots so called mechanchim going around telling people what to do when they don't have a sliver of an idea about therapy or social work.
I've seen numerous times how they make people really sick with their crazy ideas, in some cases they actually take advantage and abuse lost souls. when someone has social issues, depression etc. u take them to professional therapist.
You are absolutely right, you have some big shots so called mechanchim going around telling people what to do when they don't have a sliver of an idea about therapy or social work.
I've seen numerous times how they make people really sick with their crazy ideas, in some cases they actually take advantage and abuse lost souls. when someone has social issues, depression etc. u take them to professional therapist.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 4:42 PM
: April 10, 2008 4:42 PM
To the wise abba who loved his son inspite of his tsuris. G-d bless you for your enlightenment.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 5:00 PM
: April 10, 2008 5:00 PM
to the best father and most loving father in the world (for sure in bp) who commented at 3.40pm
i am not your son but i can tell you how lucky he is to have you and your wife as parents. thats the nicest most heartfelt most yiddishe approach to children i have ever read. this needs to be posted on all walls in bp willi and ch
hashem our father does not forget about any of his children when they stray from the path, children deserve the same from their physical parents and hashem our spiritual parents will take care of the rest
your deserve to have a loving and warm home in which to raise all of your children and any more years of brochos and all good things
i am not your son but i can tell you how lucky he is to have you and your wife as parents. thats the nicest most heartfelt most yiddishe approach to children i have ever read. this needs to be posted on all walls in bp willi and ch
hashem our father does not forget about any of his children when they stray from the path, children deserve the same from their physical parents and hashem our spiritual parents will take care of the rest
your deserve to have a loving and warm home in which to raise all of your children and any more years of brochos and all good things
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 6:29 PM
: April 10, 2008 6:29 PM
Would someone please explain to me what exactly are mechanchim?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 8:09 PM
: April 10, 2008 8:09 PM
mechanech = educator
mechanchim = educators
mechanchim = educators
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 8:45 PM
: April 10, 2008 8:45 PM
I am so disheartened to read this. I too have had this experience with a child. I listened to the 'sage advice' of one Rabbi Gluck in Monsey, recommended to be the 'best'..after taking (stealing) our money, and helping our child into a much worse derech by intro him to even worse elements, he 'helped' our child even more by giving him 'guidance' on how to live on his own. Until today he lives on his own..and we, alone, had to help find the path back. Boruch Hashem, Chasdei Hashem, he now joins us for Shabbos weekly and Yomtov..but his dress, friends, and behavior are still big nisyonos that we alone cope with..through tefillah and emunah, but we try to be supportive of him, anyway...we love him for who he is, but it is VERY difficult..especially in our neighborhood, where the small minded comments are more painful then you know...
Gluck considers himself a therapist, counselor, and who knows what else..but he will pay in Olam Haemes for almost making us lose our child(who, by the way, hates him for what he did as well..) So before using 'guidance...be VERY careful...you can lose your child...
Gluck considers himself a therapist, counselor, and who knows what else..but he will pay in Olam Haemes for almost making us lose our child(who, by the way, hates him for what he did as well..) So before using 'guidance...be VERY careful...you can lose your child...
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 10, 2008 8:59 PM
: April 10, 2008 8:59 PM
I do not have the answers, I do not believe anybody has the answers.
I will note the following.
1, This is nothing new. Many that graduated Toras Emes in the late 60's saw many such cases.
2, Drugs (legal) may not be the answer. Some drugs can lead to accidental injuries or suicidal thoughts.
In the 60's I blamed the parents for being too busy with parnasah, having no chance to focus on their problems. Evidentally the problem is here today as well. I cringe that some families focus more on image and neighborhood perception rather than focus on the problem.
I will note the following.
1, This is nothing new. Many that graduated Toras Emes in the late 60's saw many such cases.
2, Drugs (legal) may not be the answer. Some drugs can lead to accidental injuries or suicidal thoughts.
In the 60's I blamed the parents for being too busy with parnasah, having no chance to focus on their problems. Evidentally the problem is here today as well. I cringe that some families focus more on image and neighborhood perception rather than focus on the problem.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 7:43 AM
: April 11, 2008 7:43 AM
from my experence, never trust a rabbi!!!
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 9:24 AM
: April 11, 2008 9:24 AM
The problems often stems from Yeshiva staff who toss kids to the wolves for minor infractions and then WARN classmates not to have anything to do with those kids. These Principals will pay for this "Charemizing" of innocents. It goes on in every boys and girls school. Someone is made into the guinea pig as the BAD KID.
How would any child with no friends want to remain in a frum school or be frum?
How would any child with no friends want to remain in a frum school or be frum?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 9:27 AM
: April 11, 2008 9:27 AM
to the father 3:40
what a great post! actually made me cry. You are what all parents should be like.
I am someone who is not frum anymore, and despite what people think, I always felt bad and sorry about what I put my famiy through. Sadly there is no an easy choice or solution.
I don't believe in god anymore and no matter what anyone says, that won't change. One can't live a life of lies just to make other people happy.
what a great post! actually made me cry. You are what all parents should be like.
I am someone who is not frum anymore, and despite what people think, I always felt bad and sorry about what I put my famiy through. Sadly there is no an easy choice or solution.
I don't believe in god anymore and no matter what anyone says, that won't change. One can't live a life of lies just to make other people happy.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 9:54 AM
: April 11, 2008 9:54 AM
STOP HOCKING THE MECHANCHIM.
They are doing the best they can in a world gone mad.
Rav Wolfson, Mashgiach of Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, once commented that he is amazed that any bochur can survive in a world saturated with internet porn, phone porn, immodest women's clothing, crazy music, and rampant atheist secularism and materialism.
The Bochurim who continue to daven and learn under these extreme circumstances are tzaddikim. Those who fall, are normal bochurim, who--for one reason or another--can't fight their environment.
Rare is the Mechanech who can inspire bochurim to reject modernity in favor of our authentic Torah values--someone like the late Rav Eli Teitelbaum, Z"L.
The only thing I can advise parents is give lots of love to your errant child and be patient.
If you do that, then, when he gets to the middle 20's in age, he will likely begin to return to his roots.
They are doing the best they can in a world gone mad.
Rav Wolfson, Mashgiach of Yeshiva Torah Vodaas, once commented that he is amazed that any bochur can survive in a world saturated with internet porn, phone porn, immodest women's clothing, crazy music, and rampant atheist secularism and materialism.
The Bochurim who continue to daven and learn under these extreme circumstances are tzaddikim. Those who fall, are normal bochurim, who--for one reason or another--can't fight their environment.
Rare is the Mechanech who can inspire bochurim to reject modernity in favor of our authentic Torah values--someone like the late Rav Eli Teitelbaum, Z"L.
The only thing I can advise parents is give lots of love to your errant child and be patient.
If you do that, then, when he gets to the middle 20's in age, he will likely begin to return to his roots.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 10:01 AM
: April 11, 2008 10:01 AM
UNFORTUNATELY, We don't have enough R' Eli Teitelbaums!
OnRabbi Spivak's show last night, he was criticizing New York Times bias of news reporting due to financial gain of advertising by Arabs. Earlier this week on the radio, Rabbi Eidensohn spoke up against Roshei Yeshiva who tell their students to marry a rich girl.
Too many of our ROLE MODELS are obviously no better! Hypochrisy is in the atmosphere. It's turning off our kids.
OnRabbi Spivak's show last night, he was criticizing New York Times bias of news reporting due to financial gain of advertising by Arabs. Earlier this week on the radio, Rabbi Eidensohn spoke up against Roshei Yeshiva who tell their students to marry a rich girl.
Too many of our ROLE MODELS are obviously no better! Hypochrisy is in the atmosphere. It's turning off our kids.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 10:53 AM
: April 11, 2008 10:53 AM
you obviously have such a low opinion of yeshiva boys- anyone who learns just for learning is a tzadik?
modern orthodox and secular jews don't get such a free ride- no one considers them tzadikim just for not dropping out of school and becoming criminals and drug addicts.
maybe what these kids needs is to lower the standards of frumkeit and raise the standards of erlichkeit along with a healthy dose of personal ambition, and then we wont have to rate the abilities of a yeshiva bochur so low
modern orthodox and secular jews don't get such a free ride- no one considers them tzadikim just for not dropping out of school and becoming criminals and drug addicts.
maybe what these kids needs is to lower the standards of frumkeit and raise the standards of erlichkeit along with a healthy dose of personal ambition, and then we wont have to rate the abilities of a yeshiva bochur so low
anyway to the original poster, I don't know who you are and i reccommend the best medicine for you is some good friends who have been through the same thing.
anger at your parents- its normal and it will go away one day when you get your life back on track. when you feel good about the present you feel better about the past too.
the best thing in the world your parents can do is to admit they were wrong and they made a mistake. that will do wonders for your anger and clear the relationship and healing.... all parents make mistakes but most of them are stupid and refuse to admit it. Maybe yours will prove better than the rest but don't count on it, if they refuse to acknowledge it remember that MOST parents are like that. (Not that that makes it good or anything)
anger at your parents- its normal and it will go away one day when you get your life back on track. when you feel good about the present you feel better about the past too.
the best thing in the world your parents can do is to admit they were wrong and they made a mistake. that will do wonders for your anger and clear the relationship and healing.... all parents make mistakes but most of them are stupid and refuse to admit it. Maybe yours will prove better than the rest but don't count on it, if they refuse to acknowledge it remember that MOST parents are like that. (Not that that makes it good or anything)
MY ADVICE TO YOU IS TO START DRINKING HEAVILY.
BLUTO BLUTARSKI
BLUTO BLUTARSKI
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 11, 2008 6:32 PM
: April 11, 2008 6:32 PM
after reading all the posted responses; i have only two things to say:
3:40 father ---- can you PLEASE be my father????
and - r' wolfson knows how to shy away from situations that are difficult; he's not very understanding and instrumental when the going gets rough; so it's easy for him to just talk
3:40 father ---- can you PLEASE be my father????
and - r' wolfson knows how to shy away from situations that are difficult; he's not very understanding and instrumental when the going gets rough; so it's easy for him to just talk
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 12, 2008 10:29 PM
: April 12, 2008 10:29 PM
For Bocrem
I have been there done it but didn’t wait for the T Shirt!
It is and always has been a problem - when you come to the age of 13ish at one point or another we start idolising people who we think have the ultimate happiness either by the way they look behave or life style they lead. When in yeshiva if we are not top we do get verbal abuse or hints suggesting what are you doing here you are not good enough for this yeshiva or as my child? Which in most cases makes us feel uncomfortable sad and meaningless for whom we are! To solve that we try to find alternative happiness by turning to the people above who seemingly have it all! I am not here to judge any Bocar! However, as it is very hard to wait for the boring days and crying sleepless nights to pass (Little do parents know how mush we cry! And when we cry, we cry to the same Hasham as they do!) In order to reach the magic marriage age of 18! We are left with no choice but to gamble our way of life with different ideas behaviour, friends and the like. But Bocrem Please! as I said I have been there and done it but didn’t change my shirts and clothe for the simple reason that I did believe and can tell you that I was right to understand that the above happiness is short lived and it is worth while the wait to hold tight to and push it trough to get married and have a happy family! Like we all do!
Parents/Yeshivas
When you say you mean the best for the Bocar you lie! Simple as that! Do I need to say any more? Well I will!
It’s down to selfishness misunderstanding not wanting to understand no Medos no patients!
Let me tell you most of the bad things that we learn we learn from you by taking young boys and questioning them on your assumptions. While they are still innocent your are by far guilty! I Bocars life is not for sale and his existence is not by chance he has a purpose as much as you do! While some Bocram are better then others so what!? What does that mean for a shvacer Bocar death? Heartache? Is he not entitled to a Yiddesha life?
I have said enough!
I have been there done it but didn’t wait for the T Shirt!
It is and always has been a problem - when you come to the age of 13ish at one point or another we start idolising people who we think have the ultimate happiness either by the way they look behave or life style they lead. When in yeshiva if we are not top we do get verbal abuse or hints suggesting what are you doing here you are not good enough for this yeshiva or as my child? Which in most cases makes us feel uncomfortable sad and meaningless for whom we are! To solve that we try to find alternative happiness by turning to the people above who seemingly have it all! I am not here to judge any Bocar! However, as it is very hard to wait for the boring days and crying sleepless nights to pass (Little do parents know how mush we cry! And when we cry, we cry to the same Hasham as they do!) In order to reach the magic marriage age of 18! We are left with no choice but to gamble our way of life with different ideas behaviour, friends and the like. But Bocrem Please! as I said I have been there and done it but didn’t change my shirts and clothe for the simple reason that I did believe and can tell you that I was right to understand that the above happiness is short lived and it is worth while the wait to hold tight to and push it trough to get married and have a happy family! Like we all do!
Parents/Yeshivas
When you say you mean the best for the Bocar you lie! Simple as that! Do I need to say any more? Well I will!
It’s down to selfishness misunderstanding not wanting to understand no Medos no patients!
Let me tell you most of the bad things that we learn we learn from you by taking young boys and questioning them on your assumptions. While they are still innocent your are by far guilty! I Bocars life is not for sale and his existence is not by chance he has a purpose as much as you do! While some Bocram are better then others so what!? What does that mean for a shvacer Bocar death? Heartache? Is he not entitled to a Yiddesha life?
I have said enough!
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 13, 2008 12:47 PM
: April 13, 2008 12:47 PM
BLUTO,
You were the last person I expected on Chaptzem.
But you just made my night!!!
Fraternally,
Flounder
You were the last person I expected on Chaptzem.
But you just made my night!!!
Fraternally,
Flounder
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 14, 2008 1:22 AM
: April 14, 2008 1:22 AM
What seems to have gotten lost in this shakla v'tarya is that teen rebellion is NOT a pathology. Your kid isn't crazy just because he doesn't want to daven or because he doesn't want to learn b'hasmadah.
It is reasonable for parents to expect and require that their minor children to conduct themselves acording to the parent's wishes. But it is no more reasonable or ethical to drug a child into submission than it is to beat him (or her) into it.
The fact is that, sometimes, parents lose. One does one's best at raising children and inculcating tradtional values in them, but in the end, the child, now grown, makes his (or her) own decision.
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It is reasonable for parents to expect and require that their minor children to conduct themselves acording to the parent's wishes. But it is no more reasonable or ethical to drug a child into submission than it is to beat him (or her) into it.
The fact is that, sometimes, parents lose. One does one's best at raising children and inculcating tradtional values in them, but in the end, the child, now grown, makes his (or her) own decision.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : April 14, 2008 2:32 PM
: April 14, 2008 2:32 PM
