Friday, September 26, 2008
Rebuttal from anti-Semite Jew - Attempts but no cigar
The following is a letter from the anti-Semite Jew who opposes accepting Baalei-Tshuva trying to explain his previous letter. Yet again he manages to spew anti-Semitic venom and still explains nothing. The letter writer is from Lakewood.
Dear Readers;
I have written the letter posted and I'd like to follow up and explain as it may have not been understood.
Chalila V'chas I didn't mean to belittle anyone, especially those that have sacrificed so much to join Am Yisroel. I specifically wrote that it's a worthy price and for someone who has real Ahavas Hashem to bring his children home is only natural. Avraham Avinu did it and that's why he is the father of all Geirum. We have a lot to learn from them, they do appreciate the glory of Torah much more then many of us who have sacrificed nothing. I love Eliyahu and wish him all the best, but disagree with his interpretation Kibutz Golius. I am entitled to my opinion and he to his, but to call me an Anti Semite?
The point I was trying to bring out was that accepting Geirum comes at a price. I am not the one saying it, the Talmud does. It's also a fact that they tend to bring along with them the culture they came from and while Hashem loves these Jews ever so much and even more then traditional Jews like me, it's best that they don't interfere with our way of doing things. They need to be carefully vetted before being accepted there were lots of problems in recent years with Balei Tshuvas, just ask people in Lakewood. We were burned and therefore are entitled to expect them to accept scrutiny before allowing them to join us.
I did not intend to offend anybody and do not intend to start arguing what exactly is Jewish culture and why people from different places have different minahgim but I am sure that kilt was not one of them, and it's also obvious that I did not intend to include every Ger and Bal Tshuva. I just meant too say that in my humble opinion he should cease to have any contact with a non Jewish tribe. There is also possibility that it's Chikas Hagoy.
A Ksiva Vchasima Tova Lchol am Yisroel.
Dear Readers;
I have written the letter posted and I'd like to follow up and explain as it may have not been understood.
Chalila V'chas I didn't mean to belittle anyone, especially those that have sacrificed so much to join Am Yisroel. I specifically wrote that it's a worthy price and for someone who has real Ahavas Hashem to bring his children home is only natural. Avraham Avinu did it and that's why he is the father of all Geirum. We have a lot to learn from them, they do appreciate the glory of Torah much more then many of us who have sacrificed nothing. I love Eliyahu and wish him all the best, but disagree with his interpretation Kibutz Golius. I am entitled to my opinion and he to his, but to call me an Anti Semite?
The point I was trying to bring out was that accepting Geirum comes at a price. I am not the one saying it, the Talmud does. It's also a fact that they tend to bring along with them the culture they came from and while Hashem loves these Jews ever so much and even more then traditional Jews like me, it's best that they don't interfere with our way of doing things. They need to be carefully vetted before being accepted there were lots of problems in recent years with Balei Tshuvas, just ask people in Lakewood. We were burned and therefore are entitled to expect them to accept scrutiny before allowing them to join us.
I did not intend to offend anybody and do not intend to start arguing what exactly is Jewish culture and why people from different places have different minahgim but I am sure that kilt was not one of them, and it's also obvious that I did not intend to include every Ger and Bal Tshuva. I just meant too say that in my humble opinion he should cease to have any contact with a non Jewish tribe. There is also possibility that it's Chikas Hagoy.
A Ksiva Vchasima Tova Lchol am Yisroel.
Comments:
if only klal yisroel was "vetted" for fools like this letter writer. its plain to see that the REAL threat to true yiddishkeit is this anonymous letter writer and people who think like him, NOT geirim, baalei teshuva, etc.
i call on this fool to stop hiding behind his anonymity and reveal himself. after all, the yid with the kilt provided his own name and photo. if he took that much pride in doing (what you foolishly suggest is) an 'issur', should you not be that much more proud to provide your name and picture in performing the important mitzvah of 'hocheach tochiach'?? additionally, you are mekayem 'vehayah machanecha kadosh' by keeping up the standards of holy lakewood, right?? (you must have slept in the morning they were learning about the issur deoraisoh of opressing a ger, right?)
this also brings to mind the gem. in kiddushin 'kol haposel, bemumo posel'...i wonder what your family background and history is...
i call on chaptzem to not post another one of this fool's hateful letters until he reveals his identity and takes credit for the important 'mitzvah' he is performing just a few days before rosh hashana.
i call on this fool to stop hiding behind his anonymity and reveal himself. after all, the yid with the kilt provided his own name and photo. if he took that much pride in doing (what you foolishly suggest is) an 'issur', should you not be that much more proud to provide your name and picture in performing the important mitzvah of 'hocheach tochiach'?? additionally, you are mekayem 'vehayah machanecha kadosh' by keeping up the standards of holy lakewood, right?? (you must have slept in the morning they were learning about the issur deoraisoh of opressing a ger, right?)
this also brings to mind the gem. in kiddushin 'kol haposel, bemumo posel'...i wonder what your family background and history is...
i call on chaptzem to not post another one of this fool's hateful letters until he reveals his identity and takes credit for the important 'mitzvah' he is performing just a few days before rosh hashana.
Better to have contact with the real world than to spend all his time with lazy bench warmers like you.
The letter writer may be uninformed, way off the mark, dead wrong, or simply a putz. And I don't like the fact that he uses anonymity to criticize others that don't conform to his standards.
What does he mean that members of his community have been "burned" by certain baal teshuva? And the kilt...so what? R. Amnon Yiztchak and other Sephardi Rabbonim wear wear white robes and sandals- no one ever criticizes them.
Nonetheless, I don't agree with calling this person an "anti-semite Jew". Sorry, but this pejorative is way off base. Close minded- yes. Ignorant- yes again. But anything the guy wrote, even in its strictest interpretation, does not deserve the classification of "anti-Semitic".
What does he mean that members of his community have been "burned" by certain baal teshuva? And the kilt...so what? R. Amnon Yiztchak and other Sephardi Rabbonim wear wear white robes and sandals- no one ever criticizes them.
Nonetheless, I don't agree with calling this person an "anti-semite Jew". Sorry, but this pejorative is way off base. Close minded- yes. Ignorant- yes again. But anything the guy wrote, even in its strictest interpretation, does not deserve the classification of "anti-Semitic".
The commenter has a partially valid point. There are cases where geirim or baalei teshuva become "kanoim" of their own and attempt to "fix" the problems they see in the Jewish world. In some of these cases, they are correct and they serve as a positive influence. However, in most cases they aren't and they are simply bringing in non-Jewish values.
Regardless, though, the truth is that the overwhelming majority of geirim and baalei teshuva are not kanoim of any kind, they are simple and humble Jews who gladly accept the many traditions and restrictions implicit in Torah life even without fully understanding them. They are role models of "naaseh v'nishmah."
Frankly, there are far more "kanoim" among the "FFB" community, and these individuals are far more likely to cause serious harm to the community.
I would be very interested in knowing what the writer is referring to about people in Lakewood being "burned" by baalei teshuva. I live in Lakewood and I have no idea what he is talking about.
On the issue of the kilt. A kilt is no more "chukas akum" than a suit and tie. It has no religious significance whatsoever, it is simply traditional Scottish garb.
On the "interpretation" of kibbutz galiyos: Despite the fact that Eliyahu McLean was clearly not attempting to give a discourse on the precise meaning of the phrase, his use is actually pretty accurate. In galus, Jews live all over the world, in every culture, and, as time progresses, they ALL begin to adopt superficial aspects of their surrounding environments. None of us dress like our ancestors did in the days of Tanach. Litvaks dress like lawyers. Chassidim dress like Eastern-European noblemen. And so on. When the geulah comes, all of these Jews will be gathered together (i.e. kibbutz galiyos). It will certainly be a very motley crowd!
As for his final point regarding breaking off contact with his non-Jewish "tribe". This is a delicate issue which should only be addressed by a posek who is familiar with the details of the case. There are halachic reasons why a ger (and, possibly, others in similar circumstances) should NOT break off contact with his non-Jewish family. (רמב"ם, הל' ממרים ה:יא) For the commenter to state such an opinion based on absolutely no information is improper.
Regardless, though, the truth is that the overwhelming majority of geirim and baalei teshuva are not kanoim of any kind, they are simple and humble Jews who gladly accept the many traditions and restrictions implicit in Torah life even without fully understanding them. They are role models of "naaseh v'nishmah."
Frankly, there are far more "kanoim" among the "FFB" community, and these individuals are far more likely to cause serious harm to the community.
I would be very interested in knowing what the writer is referring to about people in Lakewood being "burned" by baalei teshuva. I live in Lakewood and I have no idea what he is talking about.
On the issue of the kilt. A kilt is no more "chukas akum" than a suit and tie. It has no religious significance whatsoever, it is simply traditional Scottish garb.
On the "interpretation" of kibbutz galiyos: Despite the fact that Eliyahu McLean was clearly not attempting to give a discourse on the precise meaning of the phrase, his use is actually pretty accurate. In galus, Jews live all over the world, in every culture, and, as time progresses, they ALL begin to adopt superficial aspects of their surrounding environments. None of us dress like our ancestors did in the days of Tanach. Litvaks dress like lawyers. Chassidim dress like Eastern-European noblemen. And so on. When the geulah comes, all of these Jews will be gathered together (i.e. kibbutz galiyos). It will certainly be a very motley crowd!
As for his final point regarding breaking off contact with his non-Jewish "tribe". This is a delicate issue which should only be addressed by a posek who is familiar with the details of the case. There are halachic reasons why a ger (and, possibly, others in similar circumstances) should NOT break off contact with his non-Jewish family. (רמב"ם, הל' ממרים ה:יא) For the commenter to state such an opinion based on absolutely no information is improper.
I wrote before...
I would be very interested in knowing what the writer is referring to about people in Lakewood being "burned" by baalei teshuva. I live in Lakewood and I have no idea what he is talking about.
My wife just reminded me of the case the commentor must have had in my mind. I assume he is referring to the Natan Levi case, an con man who was living in the religious community of Lakewood under false pretenses.
While the case was quite sensational and inspired some paranoia, the fact is that such a case is an extreme aberration and does not justify changing our communal policies towards baalei teshuva or gerim.
(It does, however, serve as a cautionary tale for irresponsible rabbis who do not use proper care in conversion.)
The reason I did not think of this case is that it has nothing to do with the commentor's point, that gerim/baalei teshuva bring foreign influences into the frum community. Whatever else one might say about Natan Levy, I am not aware of anyone claiming that he was bringing in foreign influences.
I would be very interested in knowing what the writer is referring to about people in Lakewood being "burned" by baalei teshuva. I live in Lakewood and I have no idea what he is talking about.
My wife just reminded me of the case the commentor must have had in my mind. I assume he is referring to the Natan Levi case, an con man who was living in the religious community of Lakewood under false pretenses.
While the case was quite sensational and inspired some paranoia, the fact is that such a case is an extreme aberration and does not justify changing our communal policies towards baalei teshuva or gerim.
(It does, however, serve as a cautionary tale for irresponsible rabbis who do not use proper care in conversion.)
The reason I did not think of this case is that it has nothing to do with the commentor's point, that gerim/baalei teshuva bring foreign influences into the frum community. Whatever else one might say about Natan Levy, I am not aware of anyone claiming that he was bringing in foreign influences.
I think the frum community is doing a good enough job of bringing in outside influences, as just about every frum home has internet, and many have television as well. So stop scape-goating the baalei teshuvah and geirim - it's pure discrimination.
By the Sefardim, there has been an "issur" since the 30's of accepting gerim. In retrospect, it might NOT be such a bad idea
I agree that a ger is dangerous, if he/she does not give up all previous contacts, incl. family..we are taking in Puerto Ricans, SHvartzas, and who knows what else, and allowing their horrible culture in, along with them..they should be screened, and denied geirus if they insist on remaining 'true to their roots' by their behavior!
Post a Comment