Monday, October 15, 2007
Being led by outsiders
One of the oddest phenomena going on lately in the Heimishe velt is that we are being led by outsiders. If you have ever been to a Heimishe agency in Boro-Park or Williamsburg, be it medical, early intervention or social services, you will notice something very interesting. Not many of the people that work there are Heimish at all. Even more disturbing is that the people that run the agency are usually the least Heimish of them all. The higher you go on the ladder in these agencies the less Heimish the people are.
So now you will say, "What do I care if they are Heimish or not?" Well, good question. How many Chasidishe people do you see running agencies in Queens or even in Flatbush for that matter. Why? Because it's not their arena. It's not their area of expertise.
The point is, we have people from outside neighborhoods and cultures that have no clue and no understanding to our specific way of life. They don't understand us or our priorities in life. Yet they feel perfectly comfortable telling us how to do things. What is even more disturbing about this is that they don't even care to learn about us, or to understand us. What they like to do is barge into our neighborhood and impress their own value systems on us.
The scariest part of all this is that these people are given such a powerful position over us despite the fact that they don't even like us or respect us. Why do we allow this to happen? Why do we give these people such power over us?
It is time that we put a stop to this and get our own agency leaders from our own community. People that share our values and culture. We have smart educated people that are part of the Heimishe community that understand and respect it. Those are the people that we should have running our Heimishe agencies, not people from other neighborhoods that have an axe to grind.
One of the oddest phenomena going on lately in the Heimishe velt is that we are being led by outsiders. If you have ever been to a Heimishe agency in Boro-Park or Williamsburg, be it medical, early intervention or social services, you will notice something very interesting. Not many of the people that work there are Heimish at all. Even more disturbing is that the people that run the agency are usually the least Heimish of them all. The higher you go on the ladder in these agencies the less Heimish the people are.
So now you will say, "What do I care if they are Heimish or not?" Well, good question. How many Chasidishe people do you see running agencies in Queens or even in Flatbush for that matter. Why? Because it's not their arena. It's not their area of expertise.
The point is, we have people from outside neighborhoods and cultures that have no clue and no understanding to our specific way of life. They don't understand us or our priorities in life. Yet they feel perfectly comfortable telling us how to do things. What is even more disturbing about this is that they don't even care to learn about us, or to understand us. What they like to do is barge into our neighborhood and impress their own value systems on us.
The scariest part of all this is that these people are given such a powerful position over us despite the fact that they don't even like us or respect us. Why do we allow this to happen? Why do we give these people such power over us?
It is time that we put a stop to this and get our own agency leaders from our own community. People that share our values and culture. We have smart educated people that are part of the Heimishe community that understand and respect it. Those are the people that we should have running our Heimishe agencies, not people from other neighborhoods that have an axe to grind.
Comments:
Heimish (Haimish) people need to get advanced degrees in orer to obtain high managment possitions
touro ba + ma is a must
touro ba + ma is a must
Comment Credit ---This article posted by 
: October 15, 2007 11:45 AM
: October 15, 2007 11:45 AM
Well, if the community would stop putting so much pressure on young men to learn full time and on young women to marry men who learn full time, then maybe those young people could attend college and get the degrees and qualifications that are required for those supervisory positions.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 11:50 AM
: October 15, 2007 11:50 AM
Sorry, what's a heimishe agency?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 11:55 AM
: October 15, 2007 11:55 AM
Haim·ish = heim·ish adj. Slang homey; folksy:
B'= Bending the rules (just a little)
B'Haimish = Chilul Hashem; Acting like animals when bending the rules.
B'= Bending the rules (just a little)
B'Haimish = Chilul Hashem; Acting like animals when bending the rules.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 1:47 PM
: October 15, 2007 1:47 PM
hmm interesting , the Boro Park Y is run by heimishe people
Step by Step, Women's League, Challenge, and Otsar are all run by Heimishe people so what organizations are you talking about? Revival? (run by con artists) Hasc? (run by ganovim)Ohel? (no one is in charge there, they all pass the buck).
please tell us who are you griping against now?
Step by Step, Women's League, Challenge, and Otsar are all run by Heimishe people so what organizations are you talking about? Revival? (run by con artists) Hasc? (run by ganovim)Ohel? (no one is in charge there, they all pass the buck).
please tell us who are you griping against now?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 4:17 PM
: October 15, 2007 4:17 PM
I know what heimishe means. I don't know what a heimishe agency is. Perhaps an example or two might help. So I googled for the groups cited in the previous post and found websites for Hasc, Otsar, and Ohel. There's nothing on their sites to indicate that they're haimishe, Hasc even describes itself on its website (http://www.hasc.net/about.htm) as non-sectarian.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 5:38 PM
: October 15, 2007 5:38 PM
haim·ish (hām′i, hīm′i)
adjective
having qualities associated with a homelike atmosphere; simple, warm, relaxed, cozy, unpretentious, etc.
Source: http://www.yourdictionary.com/haimish
adjective
having qualities associated with a homelike atmosphere; simple, warm, relaxed, cozy, unpretentious, etc.
Source: http://www.yourdictionary.com/haimish
I can use a good job. Where do I sign up? and if I need a college education will they pay for it?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 7:45 PM
: October 15, 2007 7:45 PM
stop finding things to complain about. instead, if you want a 'high powered position' then work hard, go to college and earn yourself a degree. just like anyone else who does it. we are no different and should stop trying to be treated differently.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 9:12 PM
: October 15, 2007 9:12 PM
its sounds like someone had a bad day
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 9:57 PM
: October 15, 2007 9:57 PM
i hate to say this but the boro park community council & nachas healthnet, both heimishe run organizations in boro park, are run so ineficiently, and I think it's because of the heimishe men who run it.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 10:06 PM
: October 15, 2007 10:06 PM
In my chumash it says shayshes yamim TAVOD, V`aseesa KUL melachtecha. I dont see it mention kollel, yeshivish, chassidish or heimish or modern orthodox. Maybe your chumash is from ST. Marys edition
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 15, 2007 10:08 PM
: October 15, 2007 10:08 PM
If you don't go to a Medical School, you won't become a physician. I hope everyone understands that, even if your nice aunt sells organic foods and knows what Vitamin B12 is for. Therefore, you can't expect your doctor to be as Heimish as yourself, since all the years he spent in collge and Med School you treated him like a shaygetz. So, why now do you go to him? Suddenly he garnered your respect just for his ability to check out your hemorrhoids?
If this comparison offends you, think in your own terms. If you never learned about diamonds, you won't be selling them very soon. Someone who never studied Yoreh Deah cannot complain that he is being led by Rabbis who did. And who stopped YOU, Mr. Heimish? BUt, after all, isn't it embarrassing to take your arguments with your Heimishe wife to a social worker who doesn't even cover her unshorn hair? Oh my, you may even listen to her advice!
There are no free lunches, and the discounted ones don't taste all that great, either. So, instead of complaining for having to rely on the "fremde" for basic services, get up early in the morning, forget about the 11 o'clock minyan, learn your Daf on the way to school or work, and BINGO, you made it!! And let me tell you, whe you will look in the mirror, CAHS VESHALOM, you will see a fine Heimish person, who achieved what he aimed at, and who has lost any reason for feeling sorry for himself. The best part is - when you will need to be analyzed for a congenital psychological disorder, you can do all the work by yourself.
If this comparison offends you, think in your own terms. If you never learned about diamonds, you won't be selling them very soon. Someone who never studied Yoreh Deah cannot complain that he is being led by Rabbis who did. And who stopped YOU, Mr. Heimish? BUt, after all, isn't it embarrassing to take your arguments with your Heimishe wife to a social worker who doesn't even cover her unshorn hair? Oh my, you may even listen to her advice!
There are no free lunches, and the discounted ones don't taste all that great, either. So, instead of complaining for having to rely on the "fremde" for basic services, get up early in the morning, forget about the 11 o'clock minyan, learn your Daf on the way to school or work, and BINGO, you made it!! And let me tell you, whe you will look in the mirror, CAHS VESHALOM, you will see a fine Heimish person, who achieved what he aimed at, and who has lost any reason for feeling sorry for himself. The best part is - when you will need to be analyzed for a congenital psychological disorder, you can do all the work by yourself.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 7:11 AM
: October 16, 2007 7:11 AM
How about first learning to speak proper English? You'd think , for example , that this THIRD generation Williamsburgers would at least be able to pronounce the "R" the American way instead of the Hungarian way.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 9:13 AM
: October 16, 2007 9:13 AM
I work in such an agency in BP. It is owned by "Haimish" people who also happen to be "rebbish". But, since they dont have the necessary qualifications to run this business, they have to rely on the non heimish people to help us get all the grants and slots. If I would get a degree, there is no doubt in my mind that i would be promoted and given a raise. These are government agencies and they have to be run accordingly.
Regarding HASC's reference on their webisite that they are non sectarian, they have to write that. That is the legal thing to write. we have to write that too. It is illegal to accept people based on their race or religion. Not everything can be done the Heimish way. We just have to be grateful that we live in this country, where we can get all these benifits without paying a dime.
BTW, we have the hardest time finding direct care workers in Williamsburg and BP. I think its pathetic
Regarding HASC's reference on their webisite that they are non sectarian, they have to write that. That is the legal thing to write. we have to write that too. It is illegal to accept people based on their race or religion. Not everything can be done the Heimish way. We just have to be grateful that we live in this country, where we can get all these benifits without paying a dime.
BTW, we have the hardest time finding direct care workers in Williamsburg and BP. I think its pathetic
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 5:30 PM
: October 16, 2007 5:30 PM
Heres a comment for all you 'haimish'.I wanted to get a degree and when I was younger, I was told that noone would marry a girl in college..so I didnt get one..Now I am spending the rest of my life playing 'catch up'..and genaivishe agencies that offer 'short cuts' to college, and charge an arm and a leg, are making a killing on women like me who just want to help out their own ppl!! Listen to me, all you haimishe ppl, we are our own worst enemy...and my kids are ALL going to college, because on my teaching salary, I can barely support my own family!! My kids are not gonna struggle and have to deal with these agencies ever...
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 10:30 PM
: October 16, 2007 10:30 PM
BIG, BIG Mistake!!
"the higher you go, the less heimish..." maybe, but at the HIGHEST point (the money man)
its ALWAYS a heimishe.
Check it out, Who owns the property? who collects at the end of the day? Always 'me'she'loo'ne'
"the higher you go, the less heimish..." maybe, but at the HIGHEST point (the money man)
its ALWAYS a heimishe.
Check it out, Who owns the property? who collects at the end of the day? Always 'me'she'loo'ne'
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 17, 2007 11:50 AM
: October 17, 2007 11:50 AM
Following up from Anonymous at 7:11.
That's really what the story is. I am a formerly yeshivish guy who is now a lawyer serving both heimishe and non-heimishe people. Heimishe people face two extreme limitations: they do not have proper technical or liberal arts education. And do not have a genuine interface with the culture.
Its appropriate to dismiss the education component (I certainly think four years in kollel is as valuable as four years in college) but realistically, unless you are taught how things work, you won't know how things works. The other is cultural. Medicine and law, are not just information contained in a book. There is a very specific ethos and outlook that students pick up in med/law school (and social work, accounting, etc . . .). Imagine someone disappearing into a cave for three years with an Artscroll Shas - they may know the gemara, but they would have no concept of how the yeshivishe world works.
As I tell my dear brothers and now brothers-in-law who chose to go into learning: they are electing not to go into education or business. That's fine. But they can't walk around with fantasies about being the "yuchid b'doro"s who have the intuition and mazel to make significant parnassa without any education.
That's really what the story is. I am a formerly yeshivish guy who is now a lawyer serving both heimishe and non-heimishe people. Heimishe people face two extreme limitations: they do not have proper technical or liberal arts education. And do not have a genuine interface with the culture.
Its appropriate to dismiss the education component (I certainly think four years in kollel is as valuable as four years in college) but realistically, unless you are taught how things work, you won't know how things works. The other is cultural. Medicine and law, are not just information contained in a book. There is a very specific ethos and outlook that students pick up in med/law school (and social work, accounting, etc . . .). Imagine someone disappearing into a cave for three years with an Artscroll Shas - they may know the gemara, but they would have no concept of how the yeshivishe world works.
As I tell my dear brothers and now brothers-in-law who chose to go into learning: they are electing not to go into education or business. That's fine. But they can't walk around with fantasies about being the "yuchid b'doro"s who have the intuition and mazel to make significant parnassa without any education.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 17, 2007 12:10 PM
: October 17, 2007 12:10 PM
To Anon 7:11
True. True.
I also think there is so much confusion being sown by leaders from all backgrounds. Basically, the underlying principle of education in every circle from Lakewood to satmar is that if you obtain a degree your lacking in the belief that every penny comes from Hashem.
BTW you should write a piece in a weekly because ithink you have quite a handle on the current challenge facing yingerleit from all heimshe/yishivshe backgrounds
True. True.
I also think there is so much confusion being sown by leaders from all backgrounds. Basically, the underlying principle of education in every circle from Lakewood to satmar is that if you obtain a degree your lacking in the belief that every penny comes from Hashem.
BTW you should write a piece in a weekly because ithink you have quite a handle on the current challenge facing yingerleit from all heimshe/yishivshe backgrounds
Instead of making fun of the use of the word "Heimish" why dont we realize that we are allowing all of our values to be pushed aside by agencies who would like to tell us how to live, how to bring up our children and these agencies are often run by heimishe people who prostitute their beliefs for a dollar
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 19, 2007 11:38 AM
: October 19, 2007 11:38 AM
Mr. Poster 24
The agencies exist for the sake of people who can't help themselves, usually. If you do not require Food Stamps, Medicaid, Welfare, Children's Services, and even WIC, there wouldn't be any dilution of Your Heimishkeit with modern waters. Aside from this, nobody is forcing the HEIMISH oilem to frequent these very offices seeking a handout or two. So, remember, if you want a free salad, you can't choose the dressing.
Post a Comment
The agencies exist for the sake of people who can't help themselves, usually. If you do not require Food Stamps, Medicaid, Welfare, Children's Services, and even WIC, there wouldn't be any dilution of Your Heimishkeit with modern waters. Aside from this, nobody is forcing the HEIMISH oilem to frequent these very offices seeking a handout or two. So, remember, if you want a free salad, you can't choose the dressing.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 20, 2007 7:50 PM
: October 20, 2007 7:50 PM
