Saturday, December 15, 2007
New York Times on the Kiryas Joel Vaad HaTznius
It was late one night over the summer when the Greenberg family was frightened by a menacing phone call. Then came threats, and then vandalized cars. As the days turned into weeks and the police canvassed the neighborhood, knocking on doors and interviewing potential witnesses, they were met with silence.
This was not the troubled streets of the city, nor were the witnesses fearful of gang retribution. Rather, this was Orange County, and the victims — a husband and wife who are members of the Hasidic sect known as Satmars — said they were being harassed by those in their own insular world here.
The woman, Toby Greenberg, told the police that the root of the harassment was her decision to deviate slightly from the culture of modesty that defines and reinforces this Orthodox Jewish enclave of bewigged women in long-sleeved shirts and ankle-length skirts and bearded men in black hats and long black coats.
According to the police, Mrs. Greenberg said she was singled out because she chose to wear denim skirts, long, natural-looking wigs made of human hair, and stockings without a visible seam — traditionally worn because they show that women’s legs are not bare.
The incidents offered a rare glimpse into the strict social dynamics that govern life in this village of 20,000 people, an hour from Manhattan and not far from West Point. It is a place where television and the Internet are forbidden and women do not drive, restrictions intended to provide a haven from the temptations of the outside world.
Occasionally someone defies the social mores — whether it is a young man frequenting bars in the nearby village of Monroe or a woman dressing inappropriately or flirting. That is when the “vaad hatznius,” the rabbinically appointed modesty committee that enforces the village’s rules of behavior and appearance, intervenes.
“If we find they have a TV or a married woman won’t wear a wig, we will invite them to speak with us and try to convince them it’s unacceptable, or next year we will not accept their children into the school system,” said David Ekstein, the vice president of the village’s leading congregation, Yetev Lev, and one of eight men who make up the committee, hand-picked by Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, the town’s spiritual leader.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/nyregion/16shun.html?ref=nyregion
It was late one night over the summer when the Greenberg family was frightened by a menacing phone call. Then came threats, and then vandalized cars. As the days turned into weeks and the police canvassed the neighborhood, knocking on doors and interviewing potential witnesses, they were met with silence.
This was not the troubled streets of the city, nor were the witnesses fearful of gang retribution. Rather, this was Orange County, and the victims — a husband and wife who are members of the Hasidic sect known as Satmars — said they were being harassed by those in their own insular world here.
The woman, Toby Greenberg, told the police that the root of the harassment was her decision to deviate slightly from the culture of modesty that defines and reinforces this Orthodox Jewish enclave of bewigged women in long-sleeved shirts and ankle-length skirts and bearded men in black hats and long black coats.
According to the police, Mrs. Greenberg said she was singled out because she chose to wear denim skirts, long, natural-looking wigs made of human hair, and stockings without a visible seam — traditionally worn because they show that women’s legs are not bare.
The incidents offered a rare glimpse into the strict social dynamics that govern life in this village of 20,000 people, an hour from Manhattan and not far from West Point. It is a place where television and the Internet are forbidden and women do not drive, restrictions intended to provide a haven from the temptations of the outside world.
Occasionally someone defies the social mores — whether it is a young man frequenting bars in the nearby village of Monroe or a woman dressing inappropriately or flirting. That is when the “vaad hatznius,” the rabbinically appointed modesty committee that enforces the village’s rules of behavior and appearance, intervenes.
“If we find they have a TV or a married woman won’t wear a wig, we will invite them to speak with us and try to convince them it’s unacceptable, or next year we will not accept their children into the school system,” said David Ekstein, the vice president of the village’s leading congregation, Yetev Lev, and one of eight men who make up the committee, hand-picked by Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, the town’s spiritual leader.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/16/nyregion/16shun.html?ref=nyregion
Comments:
THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN POSTED IN THIS BLOG BEFORE.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE:
TOBY IS A TROUBLED KID WHO COMES FROM A NICE HOME. SINCE SHE WAS A TEENAGER SHE NEVER WOULD ABIDE BY THE RULES OF THE SCHOOL OR HER HOME.
SHE LOVES TO GET ATTENTION BY FLIRTING WITH ALL CHASIDISHE MEN WHETHER ITS ON THE STREET OR IN THE LOCAL SHOPPING CENTERS.
EVERYBODY WAS RELIVED WHEN SHE MARRIED A LOCAL NICE BOY.
APPARENTLY SHE STILL DID NOT SETTLE DOWN. SHE STARTED DRESSING EVEN MORE PROVOCATIVELY. DENIM SKIRTS WITH LONG SLITS, LONG STREAKED WIGS, TIGHT RED TEE SHIRTS ETC.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SHE WEARS. IF YOU LIVE IN K.J. YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT A WOMAN LIKE THIS DOES NOT BELONG IN K. J.
I KNOW MANY OF YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THIS.
WHY DOES SHE WANT TO FLAUNT HERSELF IN FRONT OF CHASIDISHE MEN LIKE THIS? EVEN TBE GOYIM KNOW BETTER, WHEN THEY COME TO K.J. THEY TRY TO DRESS IN A MODEST WAY.
ITS A PITY ON HER DAUGHTER SHE IS ONLY ABOUT 2 YRS OLD. NONE OF THE SCHOOLS IN MONROE WILL ACCEPT HER.
BY THE WAY NOBODY FORCES ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING IN K.J. MOST WOMEN LIKE TO LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND NOT BE STARED AT.
I FEEL SORRY FOR HER PARENTS SIBLINGS AND IN-LAWS WHO ARE EMBARESSED WITH HER.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE:
TOBY IS A TROUBLED KID WHO COMES FROM A NICE HOME. SINCE SHE WAS A TEENAGER SHE NEVER WOULD ABIDE BY THE RULES OF THE SCHOOL OR HER HOME.
SHE LOVES TO GET ATTENTION BY FLIRTING WITH ALL CHASIDISHE MEN WHETHER ITS ON THE STREET OR IN THE LOCAL SHOPPING CENTERS.
EVERYBODY WAS RELIVED WHEN SHE MARRIED A LOCAL NICE BOY.
APPARENTLY SHE STILL DID NOT SETTLE DOWN. SHE STARTED DRESSING EVEN MORE PROVOCATIVELY. DENIM SKIRTS WITH LONG SLITS, LONG STREAKED WIGS, TIGHT RED TEE SHIRTS ETC.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SHE WEARS. IF YOU LIVE IN K.J. YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT A WOMAN LIKE THIS DOES NOT BELONG IN K. J.
I KNOW MANY OF YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THIS.
WHY DOES SHE WANT TO FLAUNT HERSELF IN FRONT OF CHASIDISHE MEN LIKE THIS? EVEN TBE GOYIM KNOW BETTER, WHEN THEY COME TO K.J. THEY TRY TO DRESS IN A MODEST WAY.
ITS A PITY ON HER DAUGHTER SHE IS ONLY ABOUT 2 YRS OLD. NONE OF THE SCHOOLS IN MONROE WILL ACCEPT HER.
BY THE WAY NOBODY FORCES ANYBODY TO DO ANYTHING IN K.J. MOST WOMEN LIKE TO LOOK LIKE EVERYONE ELSE AND NOT BE STARED AT.
I FEEL SORRY FOR HER PARENTS SIBLINGS AND IN-LAWS WHO ARE EMBARESSED WITH HER.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by 
: December 15, 2007 7:42 PM
: December 15, 2007 7:42 PM
anon 7:00
Feel sorry for yourself. This is America 2007, not some 19 century shtetel in Poland.
Feel sorry for yourself. This is America 2007, not some 19 century shtetel in Poland.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 10:22 PM
: December 15, 2007 10:22 PM
so, of course she deserves to be threatened and have her car vandalized. Last time I checked you people do not own the town, even though u make think u do.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 10:59 PM
: December 15, 2007 10:59 PM
I'm curious why she still wants to live in KJ. Why doesn't she move to Flatbush or somewhere where she'll fit in.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 11:14 PM
: December 15, 2007 11:14 PM
NOBODY VANDELIZED HER CAR. SHE PROBABLY IS DOING THIS FOR ATTENTION.
I WONDER WHO DID THIS TO HER CAR. NOT THE VAAD HATZNIUS. MAYBE HER HUSBAMD. OR HER FAMILY WHO IS ENBARRESED WITH HER.
WHY DOES SHE NEED ALL THIS ATTENTION. LET HER MOVE TO MONSEY WHERE SHE WILL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE AND SO WILL HER FAMILY HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT K.J. IS ALL ABOUT. COME HERE AND SEE HOW MODEST AND NICE THE PEOPLE ARE. IT IS NOT POLAND 1800. IT IS AMERICAN CHASIDISH 2008.
I WONDER WHO DID THIS TO HER CAR. NOT THE VAAD HATZNIUS. MAYBE HER HUSBAMD. OR HER FAMILY WHO IS ENBARRESED WITH HER.
WHY DOES SHE NEED ALL THIS ATTENTION. LET HER MOVE TO MONSEY WHERE SHE WILL FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE AND SO WILL HER FAMILY HUSBAND AND DAUGHTER.
FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT K.J. IS ALL ABOUT. COME HERE AND SEE HOW MODEST AND NICE THE PEOPLE ARE. IT IS NOT POLAND 1800. IT IS AMERICAN CHASIDISH 2008.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 11:17 PM
: December 15, 2007 11:17 PM
Baruch Hashem. Perhaps she will now reform her errant ways, with the realization that bringing in "outside authorities" will not help her misguided case.
The Torah always prevails.
The Torah always prevails.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 11:29 PM
: December 15, 2007 11:29 PM
To the idiot at 12/15/07 @ 7:42
I got news for you. As much as you would like to believe otherwise, we live in America, and from what I can tell, still in golus. You cannot use the Vaad Tzinus or any other strong arm tactics because you have to follow dinah demalchusah dinah. I would like to remind you that this is still a free country and Toby can legally dress anyway she wants and live anywhere she wants providing that place is not a privately run gated community. And I don't think KJ qualifies in that regard.
I got news for you. As much as you would like to believe otherwise, we live in America, and from what I can tell, still in golus. You cannot use the Vaad Tzinus or any other strong arm tactics because you have to follow dinah demalchusah dinah. I would like to remind you that this is still a free country and Toby can legally dress anyway she wants and live anywhere she wants providing that place is not a privately run gated community. And I don't think KJ qualifies in that regard.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 11:33 PM
: December 15, 2007 11:33 PM
Did you ever hear the saying when in Rome act like a cathlic. Dont you agree with the saying. What would you say to someone who tried to visit the vatican in a Bikini, or walk into a buddah temple with a bathing suit. Frankly, even as a Modern orthodox jew I cant understand, dress how you please, but if it is not for you, MOVE OUT OF KJ.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 15, 2007 11:45 PM
: December 15, 2007 11:45 PM
To Anon - 7:42 and to all of the other inbreeding dorfmentchen (peasants) of kiryas joel:
I'm sorry that toiby doesen't conform to all of the chimras of your heilige shtetel. But the fact of the matter is that this is the united states not Marmarush, Maiah Shurim or Teheran. And a person can live where he/she pleases.
I wonder if the Vaad Hatzneius is going after the child molesters the same way they are attacking toiby.
You say a woman like that doesn't belong in K.J. Well if people have a problem with her they could always move back to williamsburg where this mindset first began.
I'm sorry that toiby doesen't conform to all of the chimras of your heilige shtetel. But the fact of the matter is that this is the united states not Marmarush, Maiah Shurim or Teheran. And a person can live where he/she pleases.
I wonder if the Vaad Hatzneius is going after the child molesters the same way they are attacking toiby.
You say a woman like that doesn't belong in K.J. Well if people have a problem with her they could always move back to williamsburg where this mindset first began.
Why don't all you losers get a life?
WE WON. The police gave up. She shut up (read the full NYT article.) She will be afraid of doing this again after we taught her the lesson of her life.
She can call her local reporter at the Timer Herald, the Police and ACLU. She will get nowhere, just as happened here.
WE WON. The police gave up. She shut up (read the full NYT article.) She will be afraid of doing this again after we taught her the lesson of her life.
She can call her local reporter at the Timer Herald, the Police and ACLU. She will get nowhere, just as happened here.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 1:36 AM
: December 16, 2007 1:36 AM
A woman can legally walk around
topless in NY. While I think
this tather crazy. No one can
tell this woman or man how to
dress in a public area. The
problem is not with her. But with
the sexual drives of the men of
the town.
This is America.... if one
doe's not like the law either
leave or start your own town.
You can than make your own rules.
But you can not recieve any
services form the state.
No garbage pickup, funds for
school etc.
topless in NY. While I think
this tather crazy. No one can
tell this woman or man how to
dress in a public area. The
problem is not with her. But with
the sexual drives of the men of
the town.
This is America.... if one
doe's not like the law either
leave or start your own town.
You can than make your own rules.
But you can not recieve any
services form the state.
No garbage pickup, funds for
school etc.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 1:58 AM
: December 16, 2007 1:58 AM
My Dear Chaptzem,
The New York Times, of all other media publications out there, have really proven themselves to be an extremely liberal newspaper. They are almost as anti-religous as they are anti-government, anti-censorship, anti-values...and so on. You might ask why I bring this up in connection to this rather, shall I say, interesting article? Allow me to emphasize.
I too, used to be an avid reader of The Times. That all stopped after September 11 when our country was attacked by ferocious monsters who The New York Times would depict as an 'ignored desperate people.' Desperate! People who fly planes into buildings and seek to destroy innocent human life for the sake of Allah! Desperate? There was/is also the Guantanamo Bay issue of the way President Bush and his 'cohorts' treated/treats terrorists. That being terribley frowned upon by The NYT. Oh, and lets not leave out the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the New York Times declares it a 'cycle of violence.' Equating Israels response of military action to a suicide bombing. So yes, I called up The Old Grey Lady and requested that they unsubscribe me as soon as possible.
Now back to the article. Being that I have some background with this 'newspaper,' I want the readers of this blog (and you perhaps) to understand what the editors of The New York Times seek to accomplish with such a news item.
They want America to read this slanted exposition and think "Uch, these radical-ultra-orthdox-black-hat-wearing weirdo's. Arranging late night menacing phone calls and harassing people. Look at what they do. Pure insanity." When you & I both know that there is more to the story. Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to side with either the husband & wife nor do I wish to side with Yetev Lev. The deliberate point that I am trying to make is this: Did you ever read a positive article connotating wonderful establishments that religous jews, as a whole, are involved in. Or the absolutely stunning low crime rate of Boro Park? Or the countless stories of discoveries and accomplishments brought to you by non other than religous jews? Quite the contrary. Why? Transparent anti-semitism.
Maybe I'm crazy or paranoid but I have a deep rooted belief that The New York Times has a set-out agenda with each and every one of their handpicked articles.
The New York Times, of all other media publications out there, have really proven themselves to be an extremely liberal newspaper. They are almost as anti-religous as they are anti-government, anti-censorship, anti-values...and so on. You might ask why I bring this up in connection to this rather, shall I say, interesting article? Allow me to emphasize.
I too, used to be an avid reader of The Times. That all stopped after September 11 when our country was attacked by ferocious monsters who The New York Times would depict as an 'ignored desperate people.' Desperate! People who fly planes into buildings and seek to destroy innocent human life for the sake of Allah! Desperate? There was/is also the Guantanamo Bay issue of the way President Bush and his 'cohorts' treated/treats terrorists. That being terribley frowned upon by The NYT. Oh, and lets not leave out the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the New York Times declares it a 'cycle of violence.' Equating Israels response of military action to a suicide bombing. So yes, I called up The Old Grey Lady and requested that they unsubscribe me as soon as possible.
Now back to the article. Being that I have some background with this 'newspaper,' I want the readers of this blog (and you perhaps) to understand what the editors of The New York Times seek to accomplish with such a news item.
They want America to read this slanted exposition and think "Uch, these radical-ultra-orthdox-black-hat-wearing weirdo's. Arranging late night menacing phone calls and harassing people. Look at what they do. Pure insanity." When you & I both know that there is more to the story. Don't get me wrong, I do not wish to side with either the husband & wife nor do I wish to side with Yetev Lev. The deliberate point that I am trying to make is this: Did you ever read a positive article connotating wonderful establishments that religous jews, as a whole, are involved in. Or the absolutely stunning low crime rate of Boro Park? Or the countless stories of discoveries and accomplishments brought to you by non other than religous jews? Quite the contrary. Why? Transparent anti-semitism.
Maybe I'm crazy or paranoid but I have a deep rooted belief that The New York Times has a set-out agenda with each and every one of their handpicked articles.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 9:49 AM
: December 16, 2007 9:49 AM
In response to the message of
YOEL SHEMELKA..... Your message
will be forwarded to NYS Police.
Your email address is never
really hidden.
It appears that you admitted to
the crimes. Hope you do not
drop the soap while in jail.
FOOL
YOEL SHEMELKA..... Your message
will be forwarded to NYS Police.
Your email address is never
really hidden.
It appears that you admitted to
the crimes. Hope you do not
drop the soap while in jail.
FOOL
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 10:10 AM
: December 16, 2007 10:10 AM
Anyone who believes that it is totally legal to walk the streets of NY topless is simply ignorant of the law. It is in fact illegal to for a woman to appear in public in a topless manner.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 11:33 AM
: December 16, 2007 11:33 AM
WE WON. The police gave up. She shut up (read the full NYT article.) She will be afraid of doing this again after we taught her the lesson of her life.
She can call her local reporter at the Timer Herald, the Police and ACLU. She will get nowhere, just as happened here.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Yoel Shmelka : December 16, 2007 1:36 AM
``````````````````````````````
I just read that the police will be putting up hidden cameras all over Munroe to catch these animals.
I really think its about time something is done there. Its not the first time these animals are trying to get away scott free.
She can call her local reporter at the Timer Herald, the Police and ACLU. She will get nowhere, just as happened here.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by Yoel Shmelka : December 16, 2007 1:36 AM
``````````````````````````````
I just read that the police will be putting up hidden cameras all over Munroe to catch these animals.
I really think its about time something is done there. Its not the first time these animals are trying to get away scott free.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 12:29 PM
: December 16, 2007 12:29 PM
The law which allows a woman
to go topless (santorelli).
It was appealed by and upheld.
I hope that it is true that
video's will be put around the
town to caught the nazi's and
sexual perverts.
to go topless (santorelli).
It was appealed by and upheld.
I hope that it is true that
video's will be put around the
town to caught the nazi's and
sexual perverts.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 12:56 PM
: December 16, 2007 12:56 PM
INSTEAD OF LOOKING AT THE WAY WOMEN DRESS,THE MEN IN MONROE SHOULD ALL GO TO WORK.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 6:45 PM
: December 16, 2007 6:45 PM
Phillip,
Yikes! That is SOOOOOO scary. I'm shivering in my hoizen.
Let me repeat: We won. The police gave up. She shut up.
Please forward that (with my contacts) to the police, your local congressman, and the ACLU.
Yikes! That is SOOOOOO scary. I'm shivering in my hoizen.
Let me repeat: We won. The police gave up. She shut up.
Please forward that (with my contacts) to the police, your local congressman, and the ACLU.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 7:23 PM
: December 16, 2007 7:23 PM
Philip - There is nothing wrong with the sexual drives of the men. That is natural and what to be expected.
That does not give any woman the right to be publically provocative in the streets.
That does not give any woman the right to be publically provocative in the streets.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 8:01 PM
: December 16, 2007 8:01 PM
Their are over 3,500 thousand families in Monroe. Half of them are women. This was the first case in 35 yrs of K.J. exsistance that I heard of.
For your information, All men work very hard to earn a living and provide for their growing families.
Why can't anybody say something nice about these people.
The tzeduka they give
The gemilas chasudim they do
The bikur cholim they do
The hachnusas orchim they do
If you are cold and hungry, then this is the place to come to.
K.J. crime rate is the lowest in Orang County. Nobody will mention that.
The New York Times, The Times Herald Record and all goyishe newspapers are anti semetic, It is understood that they will look for the bad things in such a beautiful peaceful place.
This blog is a yeddishe blog and everything you post is to slander chasidim.
Try to screen your comments before it is posted.
What a shame.....
For your information, All men work very hard to earn a living and provide for their growing families.
Why can't anybody say something nice about these people.
The tzeduka they give
The gemilas chasudim they do
The bikur cholim they do
The hachnusas orchim they do
If you are cold and hungry, then this is the place to come to.
K.J. crime rate is the lowest in Orang County. Nobody will mention that.
The New York Times, The Times Herald Record and all goyishe newspapers are anti semetic, It is understood that they will look for the bad things in such a beautiful peaceful place.
This blog is a yeddishe blog and everything you post is to slander chasidim.
Try to screen your comments before it is posted.
What a shame.....
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 16, 2007 9:06 PM
: December 16, 2007 9:06 PM
In response to the person
claiming that the "all the men
work very hard"
Give me a break... the average
income is $15,372 per year.
63.9% of families are below
the poverty line.
Why you may ask.... most of the
men do not work. The families
recieve state benifits.
This is the community that will
threatening anyone who is deemed
a danger to their way of life.
claiming that the "all the men
work very hard"
Give me a break... the average
income is $15,372 per year.
63.9% of families are below
the poverty line.
Why you may ask.... most of the
men do not work. The families
recieve state benifits.
This is the community that will
threatening anyone who is deemed
a danger to their way of life.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 17, 2007 7:17 AM
: December 17, 2007 7:17 AM
If she has a problem why does everyone have to get involved? MInd your own business, let the lady live how she wants.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 17, 2007 8:37 AM
: December 17, 2007 8:37 AM
TO YOSSIF SHMELKA YOUR PROBABLY UNDER EVERY GOVERMENT PROGRAM.THE COMMUNITY SHOULD BE OUTRAGED THAT THIS HAPPENED.THEY SHOULD BEG FORGIVENESS FROM THIS WOMAN.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 17, 2007 8:00 PM
: December 17, 2007 8:00 PM
`Why judge a whole comunity for what a single person did? Lets face it no Vaad Hatznios would do a thing like this.
Again, for all you Hasidum Haters, GO GET YOURSELF A LIFE AND STOP PESTERING THESE FINE JEWS.
You probably feel guilty about the way you keep your yiddishkait.
Try to learn something from these chasidim.
I live in Manhattan and I have an old aunt in K.J. who is alone. Not a day goes by that she should not get at least one visitor from the K.J. women.
Try to be Dan Lekaf zechus.
Again, for all you Hasidum Haters, GO GET YOURSELF A LIFE AND STOP PESTERING THESE FINE JEWS.
You probably feel guilty about the way you keep your yiddishkait.
Try to learn something from these chasidim.
I live in Manhattan and I have an old aunt in K.J. who is alone. Not a day goes by that she should not get at least one visitor from the K.J. women.
Try to be Dan Lekaf zechus.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 18, 2007 5:12 AM
: December 18, 2007 5:12 AM
>>Baruch Hashem. Perhaps she will now reform her errant ways, with the realization that bringing in "outside authorities" will not help her misguided case.
>>The Torah always prevails.
In case you missed it, both Ahron and Zalman Leib Teitelbaum used outside authorities. . .an act which the Mechaber says makes the avaryaon a "rasha" as he committed a "chillul Hashem b'rabim."
The case of this women, however, regardless of how much you hate her, as the Mechaber paskens that one whose life is in peril may go to authorities.
According to halacha, Zalman Leib and Ahron Teitelbaum are reshoim. And this women did not do anything wrong.
Swallow that. Its hard, I know, but its a fact.
You are not living in a world of halacha. You are living in a world filled with pritzus and ignorance of the Torah.
This is the Satmar of today.
In a generation or two, I doubt any of you will even know Shas.
>>The Torah always prevails.
In case you missed it, both Ahron and Zalman Leib Teitelbaum used outside authorities. . .an act which the Mechaber says makes the avaryaon a "rasha" as he committed a "chillul Hashem b'rabim."
The case of this women, however, regardless of how much you hate her, as the Mechaber paskens that one whose life is in peril may go to authorities.
According to halacha, Zalman Leib and Ahron Teitelbaum are reshoim. And this women did not do anything wrong.
Swallow that. Its hard, I know, but its a fact.
You are not living in a world of halacha. You are living in a world filled with pritzus and ignorance of the Torah.
This is the Satmar of today.
In a generation or two, I doubt any of you will even know Shas.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 18, 2007 1:22 PM
: December 18, 2007 1:22 PM
SORRY, SATMAR OF YESTERDAY IS THE SAME SATMAR OF TODAY.
REB YOELISH, THE OLD SATMAR REBBE, WOULD NOT ALLOW A WOMAN WHO DRESSES SO PROVOCATIVELY COME TO HIS SHUL
REB YOELISH WAS VERY FRUM. HE WOULD NOT TOLERATE ANYBODY DRESSING OR DOING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN HIS COMUNITY.
THIS IS WHAT SATMAR IS ALL ABOUT TZNIUS IS THE NUMBER ONE THING.
ALL WOMEN AND GIRLS IN MONROE AS WELL AS WILLIAMSBURG, ALL SATMAR WOMEN FOR THAT MATTER ARE REAL TZNIUSDIG.
LETS GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR THAT.
REB YOELISH, THE OLD SATMAR REBBE, WOULD NOT ALLOW A WOMAN WHO DRESSES SO PROVOCATIVELY COME TO HIS SHUL
REB YOELISH WAS VERY FRUM. HE WOULD NOT TOLERATE ANYBODY DRESSING OR DOING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE IN HIS COMUNITY.
THIS IS WHAT SATMAR IS ALL ABOUT TZNIUS IS THE NUMBER ONE THING.
ALL WOMEN AND GIRLS IN MONROE AS WELL AS WILLIAMSBURG, ALL SATMAR WOMEN FOR THAT MATTER ARE REAL TZNIUSDIG.
LETS GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR THAT.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 18, 2007 9:05 PM
: December 18, 2007 9:05 PM
--Yikes! That is SOOOOOO scary. I'm shivering in my hoizen.--
Yoel Shmelka if you would stop shivering in your hoizen every time you see a women that is less overweight than you wife and doesn't have a mustache then you wouldn't have to worry so much about what Mrs. Greenberg is wearing.
Yoel Shmelka if you would stop shivering in your hoizen every time you see a women that is less overweight than you wife and doesn't have a mustache then you wouldn't have to worry so much about what Mrs. Greenberg is wearing.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 18, 2007 11:54 PM
: December 18, 2007 11:54 PM
every one knows this wasnt the vaad hatznios it was her neighbors they had the fact that all bums from monroe hang out there & she is moving probally she made a mistake that she made it public but she learned her lesson it just made her famous that when she moves away that school should also not except her child oh vey nebach a rachmunos on the child why is she nebach shildik
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 23, 2007 3:38 AM
: December 23, 2007 3:38 AM
For all you "holy" and "modest" individuals out there... Keep in mind that to not embarrass someone is a greater mitzvah than to walk around checking out what women are wearing under their clothing. And, if you don't mind me asking, why are you looking in the first place? And, shouldn't all you holy and torah dedicated individuals be out there learning torah.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : December 25, 2007 8:12 PM
: December 25, 2007 8:12 PM
to anonymous 12/15/07 7:45 P.M....so according to you we should'nt interphre if somebody starts being mechallel shaboss, decides to walk around in, lets say, bikini, men women start playing tennis together etc.,etc., etc. after all this is America not some europe polish shtetel...
to anonymous 12/25/08 8:12 P.M...this haclacha of not embarrasing one is not a blank check as alot of other mitzvos, we can safely assume that she was asked, warned(hastroah) by beth din. The torah publsizes "shloma bas divri"(yes the one who also had 'tznious' problems) and didnt worry about embarresing her..also all you out there dont throw around you opinions on what is right or not regarding halacha, there's a shulchan urech out there and thats what we're guided by, not by everyones personal opinion that is shaped by accoring to how much of the immoral steet is "mished" together with some torah one has
to anonymous 12/16/08 6:45 p.m.:..as if all 6,000 (?) inhabitants of kiryas yoel were crowding around and staring...your intelligence is beyond our comprehension...
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