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Thursday, December 27, 2007

Seeking Shomer Negiah Boro-Parkers for upcoming documentary film

Sent in by two of our filmmaker readers;

Hello
We are two local Orthodox women producing a documentary about Shomer Negiah and its benefits/ challenges. We are looking to interview a Hasidic couple on camera who will talk about being shomer negiah while dating and what its like, especially in the ultra-hasidic communities.
please contact us if youre interested

yochevedsidof@gmail.com

Comments:
Wow what a good idea. It shouldn't be no issue at all, as all my friends whoh are serious frumaks and are shomer negiah when dating and who have never asked a flight hostess for a cup of water, are precisely the ones who come running whenever I want to make a youtube video. They just LOVE going online and speaking for the general public about their views on relationships and love and any connected topic. Good going! This should be a breeze!

To get serious for a second who the h*ll cares about a video about people who are careful about shomer negia, except for a few secular jews who need to convince themselves how backwards we are, in order to stifle their own conscience. I'm sure this very enterprising film student plans to make a film that will appeal directly to the biases of the people grading him/her, and sucker some gullible girl into it by some stupid spin about how it will inspire others to follow her example.

 

We are looking to interview a Hasidic couple on camera who will talk about being shomer negiah while dating

hasidic dont date when would they have a chance to get it on?

 

sorry you can't use me, I tried and failed

 

Thank you for starting me day with a good laugh.

 

My wife and I are a Hasidic couple that were shomer negiah while dating. We went to places like the 5 towns and NJ and watched the local "frum" couples touch each other (we were Shomrim Negiah).
We needed to did this because we are a Hasidic couple, we don't have email or internet access nor go to movies. And we had no idea how we would touch after marriage. I might add we took seperate modes of transportation to get to these places as we were afraid of what might happen if we traveled together in the back of her brother's minivan.

yochevedsidof wake up and smell the cigarette butts - for a book some people might be willing to talk to you. To talk on video, Pope Benedict has a better chance at being president of the US.

 

Someone who is frum is "shomer negiah". Ugh! I hate that term. If you aren't shomer negiah you aren't frum. It's just like any other mitzva it is not an arbitrary, voluntary mitzva, no ands ifs or buts about it. I think the one who is making this film is an idiot.(It's just like tznius, yichud etc. Are they going to make films on "shomer yichud" or "shomer tznius" or whether or not a married woman covers her hair?)It is pointless. You're either shomer the Torah or you aren't.

 

Someone who is frum is "shomer negiah". Ugh! I hate that term. If you aren't shomer negiah you aren't frum. It's just like any other mitzva it is not an arbitrary, voluntary mitzva, no ands ifs or buts about it.
-------------
If someone speaks Loshon Hora, are they frum?

 

if someone committs tax fraud and money launders and in the process a massive chilul hashem is he frum?

 

To 10:57 AM:

Being "Shomer" is a lifestyle choice, which is against the torah AKA "Not Frum", Loshon hora is just a senseless "act" it does not define a lifestyle!!

 

Most People who speak Lashon Hora, do so because they either don't realize what they said is Lashon Hora or because they made a mistake. Someone who is NOT Shomer Negiah OUT OF PRINCIPLE is denying the Torah for being someone who is Shomer Negiah is not a choice; it is an obligation. People do make mistakes when it comes to negiah as well, specifically when they are chosson and kallah, which is one of the reasons why our teachers do advise the chosson and kallah not to see each other so often.

 

anon 8:54
Unfortunately, you are a very good example a cynical ghetto Jew. They want to make a movie. You don't want to be in it? So what? Why all the negative comments?
Live and live, my friend.

 

Do they realy have to search this hard to find a frum couple willing to make a few extra bucks?

 

Someone who speaks L"h doesn't do it by Shitta "I'm allowed to speak L"H since I'm Not Shomer Loshon Hora"

However people think that if they're not so "Hassidic" then they are allowed to be "Nogeah' as this is the same as wearing a shtreimel or not wearing a shtreimel.

Yes, negiah is osser just as L"H.

 

For all of you, Frum does not equal Erlich. There are many Frum people, very few Erlich people.

 

What you are looking for is a bit silly. That is like looking for a dead bird flying in the sky.

Why?

Chassidishe couples DO NOT DATE. Period. (not in the usual sense)

They meet with others in the room, and do not eat together, etc.,

Yes, some in the Yeshiva world to go out to eat, but it is very difficult to do according to din. They may not pass food to each other. They may not share any food. One may not eat each other's left overs. and many other little rules.

Touching is not all the is to it.

Many Chassidishe couples can say They were never alone.

-----
NOTE: If you refer to people as "Ultra-hasidic" then you are an outsider who does not understand this. One is either Chassidish or not. There are no degrees.

Sort of like "Ultra-pregnant" (smile)

Negia is a forbidden act. It is no different from eating pork or cheeseburgers or driving on Shabbos.

One can't say: "Oh, I can eat that, I am not shomer pork."

Or, I can drive to the beach on Shabbos, I am not.. well, that WOULD mean he/she is not shomer Shabbos, which means he/she is not a kosher Jew.

Anyone who intentionally flaunts ANY of our commandments is not religious at all.

Sure, there are frum people who make mistakes, and commit sins, but those are due to temptation or mistakes.

But, once a person says: "I do not keep this commandment!" ... he or she has pulled themselves out of being an observant Jew.

It is called "porek ole" which means he/she has "Shed the Yoke" of the Torah.

Judaism is not a Chinese menu, where we take 3 commandments from column A, and 2 from column B, etc. and leave others that you don't like.

It IS an "all or nothing" thing.

Also, the very term "ultra-hasidic" is very offensive to us.

Whenever one uses the term "Ultra" it is used in a way to marginalize a person or group for their behavior, and show that it is unnecessarily rigid.

We are NOT unnecessarily rigid, we are necessarily following the Torah as written, including all addenda and codicils attached by Rabbinic law.

Rabbinic Law is equally binding to a Jew as the laws enumerated in Scripture.

So, if you are truly "Orthodox", I would suggest you live among us Chassidim for awhile, and get to know us. Maybe you can get rid of your own prejudice, and stop calling us Ultra.

Remember, not a single law in the Torah is "voluntary" .... one can not choose to be "shomer this law" or "not shomer this law"

In fact anyone who outright says, I will not be shomer this law, falls into a category where it may need a sheila whether he can even be counted for a minyan, or whether his kashrus can be trusted, etc.,
(assuming he/she was properly educated and familar with the law)

 

Filmmakers?

Never mind the negiah!! Are frum women even allowed to have pictures taken of them?

Are you going to pixellate the woman in the film?

What would Yated and Hamodia say?

 

are we for or against negiah

 

before I married my wife , she was not that shomer, but after we got married she is much stricter

 

I believe it was Rabbi Reisman shlita who said that "frum" means keeping shabbos, kosher, and taharas hamishpacha. He is a lot more learned than any of you knokers, so SHUT UP!

 

Why do only want to interview hasidac. You'd be more succesful with litvash!

 

Anon 6:04 PM
before I married my wife , she was not that shomer, but after we got married she is much stricter


6:04....Best comment I have seen in a while LOL!!!!

 

thank you
you will be hearing more from me on these timely topics

 

Even the so called "frum" people aren't shomer negiah especially when their engagements are extremely long. They "accidentially" loosen up and it's all over. They start with something small and then they do bigger things. One thing leads to another.

 

Which rabbi reisman told you that? just curious

 

there are very frum people that sill see one another the week of the chasunah and yes are NOT shomer negiah.

 

7:31 PM

what about ALL of Taryag Mitzvos?

If someone keeps Kibud AV Veaim, dresses tzinut, davens with a minyan 3x daily, learns torah day and night, etc. etc. mean that this person is NOT FRUM?

Please explain your statement.

 

WHERE DID YOU PEOPLE GET YOUR CHINUCH? AT THE LOCAL "Y"? OR IN SUNDAY SCHOOL?
WE JEWS (CHASIDISH AND LITVISH) HAVE A SHULCHAN URECH. IT SAYS WHAT YOU CAN DO AND WHAT YOU CAN'T. AND NEGIAH BEFORE THE CHASUNA IS FORBIDDEN. PERIOD.
YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE WHAT YOU WISH, TO MAKE YIDDISHKEIT FIT YOUR WHIMS AND LIFE-STYLE - BUT DON'T CLAIM TO BE FRUM. YOU ARE EITHER REFORM OR CONSERVATIVE OR WORSE.
AND RABBI REISMAN DIDN'T SAY THAT IT YOU KEEP SHABBOS AND TAHARAS HAMISHPACHA, THAT IS SUFFICIENT AS A JEW. HE SAID THAT ONE KEEPING THOSE BASICS IS CONSIDERED A JEW. BUT IF YOU DON'T KEEP THE REMAINDER OF THE SHULCHEN URECH - YOU ARE STILL A SINNER.
BUT WITH YOUR ATTITUDE, YOU ARE NOT EVEN FORGIVEN ON YOM KIPPUR - BECAUSE YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE OKAY, AND DON'T NEED TO DO TESHUVA.
GET YOURSELF A HONEST AND FRUM ROV, AND LEARN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A FRUM YID.
BY THE WAY, IF YOU WOULD ASK RABBI REISMAN WHTHERE NEGIAH IS ALLOWED - YOU WILL GET A RESOUNDING NO!

 

December 31, 2007 12:24 PM

How about posting his phone number and where he's located? What is Rabbi Reisman's first name?

 

December 31, 2007 12:24 PM


Are you a sinner too? Judgemental isn't allowed, you have no problem with that. Lashon Horah isn't allowed, yet you mention someone's name in this post, is that permitted? Is being on the INTERNET permitted according to ALL rabonnim? Probably not... that's ok, you're a pick 'em and choose 'em Jew too.
Welcome to the group.

 

just from the tone of language one can derive that these 2 "orthodox' women are not orthodox. also you out ther ewhat is it about the "ghetto" jew i hear mentioned alot with distain from certain type of jews? yes, we know,"ghetto" jews you mention,you are referring to jews who observe the torah which includes the 4 parts of shulchun aruch ,while non-"ghetto" jews or "enlightened"jews observe what is convinient to you. yes non-jewsalso look upon shorai torah u'mitzvos as "ghetto" jews. when the riboni shel olom gave the torah on har sinai he did not give choice menu "orthodox,centrist,conservative,reform,reconstructionist..etc. proof: all these non-orthodox movements their father ,grandfather or great-grandfather etc. somewhere down the line were "ghetto" jews observing the whole "ghetto" jews torah

 

.while were at probing benefits/challenges of 'shomrei negiah" would like to add -benefits of shomrei shabbos,taharas mispacha,treife meats, as a matter of fact all taryag mitzvohs ,espeially like to interview those "ghetto" jews who observe these ...b'chol perutayho,v'dikdikaho'..what it is like!!

 

Bottom line. Many many modern orthodox singles engage in negia.

 

Uhm. Why is negia being equated with pork? Without getting too talmudic, I think here is a distinction. Not to say that both are not equally forbidden bottom line, but their sources do not both root equally as directly to a biblical commandement.

And if one transgresses a sin, their good deeds still count as much as the next person's. SO the all or none positions pushed by some here in-your-face are incongruous with orthodox judaism. Not that much matters here on a blog anyway...

 

My problem with the whole shomer negiah thing is that there are too many closeted gay men in the frum community who are hiding behind shomer negiah. You can't figure out why there are so many divorces between "nice" frum couples? There is a huge gay problem. A lot of abuse in marriages because of this. Just wait until your daughter marries one...

 

Of course it's a seif in shulchan oruch, like all other mitzvos, and unfortunately many yidden are nechshol, like with other mitzvos. Part of the problem, speaking from experience, is with the emphasis on the "big three" (shabbos, kashrus, taharas hamishpocho) there is a de-emphasis on other things, esp in modern orthodox society. Also, amongst MO, it becomes acceptable to say things like "oh, we don't follow that", "we're not that strict/frum" (referring to a halocho about which there is no machlokes), or "it's only derabonon, so it's OK".

 

to anonymous jan 9, 12:16 a.m..L'gabay to "l'katchule" disregard any din in "shulchon urech" is no difference between a little "d'rabonon" or chiev kores..and one who has such shita cannot be trusted on anything kashrus, taharus mispacha, machshil someone with forbidden foods, because once theres no "yirash shomaim" where does it end?...Reb Meir (the tanna) said on who is mumer to one thing in torah is mumer "l'chol hatorah"..even though he said l'gabay taryag mitzvos' the reason pertains to everything

 

Note to Anonymous : December 27, 2007 4:55 PM
You make some very good points about halacha being expected of all Jews.
However, I must take exception to one point you made. Since when (i.e. please quote a posek or halacha sefer) are "Harchokos" e.g. not passing things, not eating from same plate - not allowed for an engaged couple? Possibly by chassidish, I wouldn't know. However, by litvishe there is NO SUCH THING. The only thing forbidden before marriage is yichud and negiah. Gradeh, most rabbonim advise engaged couples not to see each other too much.

Please clarify where you are getting your info!

 

to SARAH G. posted jan 15 7:10 p.m...since one does not ask unmarried girl which part of "her" month she is in, so all halochos in shulchan urech "yoreh deya" of not touchin,passing food etc. pertain and l'gabay the reason of those halochos in the case of unmarried girls it is no difference which part of "her" month she is in, on top of it unmarried girls are not allowed to "immerse" so the halochos mentioned above are valid all month all year untill they are married. also the word "expected" you use are not accurate, we look forward to observe the dinnim in shulcun urech "nasah v'nishmah".and don't say we cannot be "nechshod"...the g'mmorah chulin 11: says "ein apitropos l'aroyos"

 

to moderator. Can you please take out what i sent you last night, the following is clearer ..to SARAH G. posted jan 15 7:10 p.m...since one does not ask unmarried girl which part of "her
month" she is in,so all halochos in shuchen urech "yoreh daya" of not touching,passing food etc. pertain.Also legabay unmarried girls it actually is no`difference which part of "her month" she is in because they are asur to each other until after marriage, on top of that, unmarried girls are not allowed to "immerse" so all the halochos mentioned above are doubly valid untill they are married. If you will search thru all tsuvou sforim in "aven ezer" even from 100-300 years ago you will find plenty tsuvous of "michsholous" because of being lax in these matters,yes we are talking about unmarried ...and dont say we cannot be "nechshod"
remember the gemmorah Chulin 11: "ein apitropos l'aroious"...also the word "expected" are not accurate, for we look forward to observe the dinnim in shulcan urech,nashe v'nishma" Signed PROUD "GHETTO" JEW

 

to anonymous dec. 30 10:47 p.m....you are contradicting yourself in same sentence..you write, I know very "very frum people" who are "not shomer negiah" !! ...and i know "very frum people" who lie,mislead (genaivous dass),steal, talk during leinen etc., etc.,....that was very "intelligent" observation...proud "gehtto" jew

 

if anyone interested in the reason of issur negiah read thishttp://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewish-view-sex-marriage-sexuality.htm

 

Does anyone know how to read? The original request was for people who were shomer negiah. Why is there such a big fight about not being shomer? No one wants to talk to them!

 

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