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It’s always all about money . Unfortunately kashrus today is a business. All too common Blackmail to make it appear not kosher for dues unpaid. SADLY, KASHRUS TODAY HAS BECOME A BIT OF A RACKET ESPECIALLY IN THE OFFSITE HOTEL JOBS.. Klal yisroel has been in golus too long and Hashem will forgive us.

 

I don't see any contradictions, the restaurant is just trying to say that even though they lost one hechsher they still have another.
Does anyone know specifically why they lost the hashgacha?

 

I agree with lavdafka.
It has become a business. The vaad is a cartel and if you don't pay up you are punished with a bad reputation. Switching hechshers is not a crime! Unfortunately it is treated as one.

 

Rabbi Goldberg from the Vaad is a Mafia man. I know for a fact of a store that is run by a truly ehrliche guy who has Hisachdus Hashgacha. Rabbi Goldberg was willing to get his name up for free in that store, however the owner refused him. He does not let establishments under his Hashgacha use from that store products in order to get him back.

 

The ads are not contradictory. The Vaad of Flatbush removed their hechsher and R Babad put his on.

 

lavdafka noone is stopping you from hearing the truth If you are so concerned you can do as I did, and call the Kashrus Agency (vaad) and you will find out the real deal. From what it sounds like it wasn't about money @ all. I am not a big Rabbi but once a Hashgocha is removed from an establshment, especially a Fleisheger one,I will no longer be going back.

 

For behaving like this and worse, we clearly have not learned our lesson and need to be in galus longer. And, no, Hashem will not forgive. He will punish, as He always does and as we so richly deserve.

 

Kashrus is a business. The only organization I would trust is one that is a TRUE non-for profit, such as th OU.

The worst is the CRC. They are a bunch of mobsters with beards. In the long run, business orgnanizations like the CRC are driving up prices for the consumer.

As an aside, I deeply hate the so called "mashgiach temidi" who just sits around reading the newspaper. It is a chilul hashem and remisniscent of Mafia members sitting around doing nothing at construction sites.

 

To April 09, 2008 2:42 PM. It is 100% kosher. Switching hashgafa is not a crime. Are you brainwashed by the Vaad? What is wrong with R Babad? What do you think is not kosher b/c the hashgafa was changed?
You would not eat there that does not mean others should do the same.
This is all small potatoes in our daily lives.
Eat at home. it's cheaper and you know what is in your food.

 

If there was a real kashrus or reliability problem, then the VAAD should publicize it to prevent others from giving a hechsher. There is no problem of Loshon Hora when it comes to prevent otheres from sinning.

Otherwise it just appears to be a business deal.

As it it the VAAD of Flatbush is considered a "weak" hechsher and R' Babad a good one.

 

I totally agree that the some parts of kashrut business have become a racket ...
BUT...
The first ad clearly states "Due to Kashrut violations"

 

KASHRUS IS NO BETTER THAN WHAT THE MAFIA DOES.IT IS TIME TO HAVE REAL JEWISH LEADERS.

 

For all those who say Kashrus is a racket you're 100% RIGHT! Don't know about US but here in UK $11 for a roll of frozen kosher for pesach gefillte fish. It cost me $600 dollars to by the basics for myself, living on my own.

 

They probably have Menachem Lubinsky doing their PR work.

 

He purchased meat from a place that Kehilah permits. Rabbi Babbad permits. But goldbereger who is SUPPOSED to be representing the flatbush community does not approve of. Go figure !!!
Its a CHUTZPAH !!!!

 

"but once a Hashgocha is removed from an establshment, especially a Fleisheger one,I will no longer be going back."


It is because of unsophisticated idiots like you that allow these kashrus organizations to exist.

Do yiddishkeit a favor and grow a brain.

 

A restaurant that sells meat that their hashgacha does not permit is breaching their contract with that hashgacha. A restaurant that defies their hashgacha's orders and commits a dishonest act, even if some people think that it's minor, can not be trusted with issues of a higher magnitude. One "little white lie" leads to bigger lies of greater consequence.

 

First of all i cant take this i know Rabbi Goldberg and i know a person very well who works in Mr. Nosh. #1 When Mr. Nosh oppened up They had BOTH the vaad and rabbi Babbad.It was NOT about money it was about brining in meat for a place that the vaad does not like. Rabbi Babbad holds of the place where they are gettinig there meat from.

 

Mr. Esq thats exactly what Rabbi Goldberg told me. If you look at the monsey case he didnt go straight to perdue chicken he first played around with things like in this case.

 

the worst is the rcc (rabinical corruption of california) not are they only in it for the money but they put down the other hashgachas down and criticize any rav that dosnt go along with them and many ppl are now also starting to doubt if thier food is even kosher i know someone who asked a retirement home chef when the last time they came to check was and he said it had been over 10 years but they still send the bill every year so all he has to do is pay their fees hang up their sticker on the window and his food is kosher

 

Mr. Nosh has always had 2 hashgachas, the vaad and R' Babad. R' Babad was not brought in extra. I don't know what happened, but apparently they did something the vaad doesn't permit. Whether it's kosher or not or a kashrus issue or not is not the issue here. The problem is the Mr. Nosh did something against a previously signed contract. If I can't trust Mr. Nosh in dinei mamonos, why in the world would I trust him in dinei kashrus. It doesn't matter if the only violation was that he used a #3 filter on the water instead of #2.

 

If the Vaad advertises that it dropped a hechsher on a restaurant because of kashrus violationS, and it were not true, the Vaad would be sued for slander and at a minimum taken to Beis Din. The truth, therefore, is self-evident.

This is not the first time that the Vaad has removed the hechsher from a store that bought meats from a kosher, but not approved vendor. My idea of heimish is a proprietor who doesn't lie to his Rav Hamachshir. Bravo Rabbi Goldberg.

 

Zisse Chalupchis said - Your logical is totaly illogical!!

 

I find some of these comments laughable - especially the one purportedly from one that dubbs himself "Mr. Esq." I am truly ashamed to be a part of the legal profession when someone in my field uses this blog as a forum to write misleading information concerning the matter at hand.

The truth of the matter is: the VAAD lacks due process. We live in America. If Mr. Nosh breached his contract, where is the evidence? The VAAD claims that Mr. Nosh signed a contract stating that he would not purchase from certain meat outlets. Where is this contract? I, for one, would like this "contract" to be published to the public before I make any snap judgments. One casting himself out as an "attorney" cannot simply write contract law, without raising constitutional issues - that is patently irresponsible. Without due process, we would be writing off basically anyone and everyone. WE NEED SUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS in order to fry someone in the forum of public opinion, as well as in the eyes of our fellow bretheren. Moreover, where is the "contract" that Mr. Esq. speaks of? In order to talk of contracts, there needs to be a contract - when has anyone seen this alleged contract? To that end, I respectfully request that the VAAD produce this "contract" so that we can see who is who here.

I am confident that the VAAD will not produce this "contract." I say this because there is no contract. Had there been one, I am sure he would have produced it so that the Jews would see that this serious issue can be laid to rest. Clearly, the VAAD believes that words alone carry weight, especially when used to harm a fellow Jew. The VAAD is a bogus entity - no one really takes them seriously anyway. In what form of Judiasm do we need two "blessings?" The fact is: There is a more respected Rabbi stating that the meat purchased is indeed of the highest quality in terms of Kashruth. Considering that is the case and the VAAD has refused to release said "contract." I have come to realize that it is very evident who should be written off. The VAAD should be ashamed of itself for fabricating lies and trying to hurt a business merely because the enterprise will not put a few extra bucks in his own pocket. Is this about Kashrut or Money?

 

rav Babbad is the mashgiach at mr nosh does anyone think for a minute that he would put his reputation on the line if he had any doubts about any sort of vaiolation. even the slightest doubt?

 

mr nosh is the restaurant of my choice. my family love it ,and my friends love it. rab babbad his their mashgiac, and it speaks for itself.

 

Wow! After reading some of your comments, I am just appalled at how easily some of you are so quick to judge and to follow, instead of question these so called ”false accusations” made by the VAAD, specifically Rabbi Goldberg. Shame on you for not having minds of your own. Do some research and inquire first before you jump to conclusions yourselves.
First of all, I know for a fact that Rabbi Babbad has been the Rav Hamachshir at Mr. Nosh since Day 1. In fact, the only reason why I or any of my friends in the Flatbush community eat there at all is because of Rabbi Babbad. His Hashgacha is well respected in our community, whereas Rabbi Goldberg’s Hashgacha is frowned upon.
Second, if Mr. Nosh actually violated kashrus laws why wouldn’t Rabbi Babbad, a well respected mashgiach remove his hashgacha as well? Why would he want to be associated with a restaurant that was violating kashrus laws? That would reflect poorly on him, and his reputation as a Mashgiach would be compromised. Therefore, it is clear that these accusations made by Rabbi Goldberg are FALSE!
Third, to answer the genius who accused Mr. Nosh of being in the wrong clearly because they won’t sue or take the VAAD to beis din. Have you ever considered the fact that maybe Mr. Nosh doesn’t want to stoop to the level of Rabbi Goldberg by creating a Chilul Hashem? Like The VAAD did when they paid for advertisements to falsely accuse Mr. Nosh of violating Kashrus laws, and not even having the courage to specify what those violations are. If a kosher restaurant violated Kashrus laws, then Rabbi Goldberg shouldn’t be so vague. He should at least have stated clearly what those violations are so that customers can decide on their own whether or not these violations are justifiable.
Finally, I am a long time customer of Mr. Nosh and I have been loyal to them as they have always been to me. For the record, My family and I eat their regularly mostly because the food is always fresh and delicious, but also because we trust the Hechsher of Rabbi Babbad. And is it turns out he’s the only Mashgiach that I’ve seen at Mr. Nosh, hence I’ve never once seen Rabbi Goldberg there. Rabbi Goldberg does not seem to be a stand up Rabbi, and I think if anyone is violating anything, it’s Rabbi Goldberg violating his role as a Mashgiach!

Loyal Customer 422

 

While the ad hominem attacks on the vaad are always enjoyable reading, they lack basis.

1. Any restaurant owner who believes that his parnosah is threatened would immediately demand a retraction from a rav who claimed he had violated kashrus standards. Simply thanking the Vaad for its years of service won't do.
2. It is galuy viyaduah in the Flatbush food industry that the Vaad has a strict policy of vendors that it would accept.
3. Look at the Jewish weeklies and you will see that whenever a hechsher is removed, because of kashrus violations, the specific violation is NEVER specified.
4. The fact that Rabbi Babad continues to give a hechsher may please those who wish to continue eating at the store but is in no way responsive as to whether the owners violated the Vaad's kashrus policy.
5. The fact that Rabbi Babad continues to give a hechsher might make one wonder if HE is the one who is in it for the $$. Is he? I doubt it. But the suggestion is obnoxious regarding either rav hamachshir.
6. The shoitah who raised constitutional rights and due process issues is in my estimation borderline retarded. Even if there were a contract, which I am unaware of, a breach of contract does not raise any due process issue. Know your chumash before you learn gemorah.
7. Why no ask the owner why his hechsher was dropped. Then tell us what he has to say?
8. Unless you are from Aidos Hamizrach, remember to remove rice from your stuffed cabbage recipe this Pesach.

 

to zise chalupcick
i never understood when the gemarah discusses a shoitah but now ido after reading your comments

 

seriously - who let's this guy Zise talk - besides making absolutely no sense, he lacks reading comprehension skills - the point of bringing up due process, was not to say that it must be afforded in this instance - rather, it was to show that there are principles, rooted in our constitution, as well in common sense that state that one should be skeptical and not be so quick to judge assertions lacking even the slightest evidence - so forget chumash, gemorah, navi, or the whole tanach - you make no sense.

As to the contract claim - Rabbi Goldberg has claimed that a contract was breached - that meat was purchased from a store that many Rabbis claim is absolutely Kosher in all respects, but still is not up to his "standards." That is the sole reason behind his claim that there was a Kashrut violation...where is the contract? Without it, his ad is baseless and quite hurtful to any Jew that demands honesty when it comes to a decision where to eat.

Finally, just because one does not sue or bring someone to beit din, that means absolutely nothing in the overall scheme of things, especially with guilt - moreover, since when is a failure to seek a retraction equal to evidence of guilt - which world do you live in? Your Communist ideals are very unsettling - let's see some actual evidence before we make judgments - if that is something that cannot get through your lead poisoned ridden brain, then I am certain that rice in your stuffed cabbage is not something that you need to worry about...

 

The Hashgocho Business!!!
I generally eat in kosher establishments with hashgocho. One day I chose to eat in a place with no hashgocho. Sounds like I lead a not frum, not kosher lifestyle?
First listen to the details.
I went to a kosher restaurant in Brooklyn and ordered chicken on the grill. While the food was on the grill someone from the hashgocho came and asked for the money. When the money was not presented, with pleas to wait a few hours, the hashgocho and the teuda were removed. I asked the previous provider of the hashgocho if I could eat my food. It was supposedly kosher when placed on the grill that was supposedly kosher,then placed on a plate. The meat, grill and plates were under hashgocho minutes before. The answer was” if you generally eat meat in places without hashgocho you know what to do.”

Yes, people are entitled for fair payment for their time and expertise but this was the act of a Mafioso, risking the waste of food and money.

 

Unfortunately, many people who work for kashrus organizations have no tact and are not trained in people skills.

Just because you witnessed the owner not being able to pay that day, and the representative of the kashrus agency not giving him more time, tell us little. We don't know how many previous times he failed to pay. He may have made numerous previous promises to pay, and not kept them.

This issue also feeds to nehmonus issues. Can a man who does not keep his word to pay the money side of the contract be believed that he will keep the kashrus rules part of the contract.

I too would pull a teuda if the person made previous payment promises that he did not keep.

Also, the hashgacha needs to be treated as any other fixed expense. Not just something to be paid after all the "important" bills are paid. It needs to be one of the "important" bills.

If a place is open, it means he is paying his rent
If he has food, he is paying his food suppliers.
If he has employees, he is paying his help.
Why is he not paying the hashgacha bill?

If the landlord closed him down for non payment of rent, would you call him a mafioso?

If the butcher refused to sell him meat because he did not pay the last meat bill, would you call him a mafioso?

Many in the hashgacha industry are working for HALF of what they could make in other fields! The little they make needs to be paid on time.

I know a rov from a certain kashrusu agency whose salary is $24,000!!!! This is after 12 years! This is a shame. He is a talmid chochom, and highly experienced in training and supervising mashgichim.
Should he not get his $24k measely salary on time?

There are many, many, dedicated and highly underpaid rabbonim in the kashrus industry. They are not mafia. They are trying to keep the food we eat kosher. But they also need to buy food for their families.

Where I live now, the mashgichim earn a big $13.00 per hour, with no medical, and no benefits! Is that mafia? That is spineless kashrus organizations so afraid the owners will simply not bother being kosher, that they undercharge and underpay.

When we put down the kashrus industry we are insulting some very dedicated tzadikim.

 

the vaad of flatbush is one big joke if u look at stores in the flatbush area are taking the vaad of queens.the vaad of flatbush consists of 3 stooges goldberg,his wife, &his son this is some vaad.

 

Let me let all of you in on a big secret.

The reason restaurants and other Kosher establishments have 2 hashgachas is because many of them are forced to, especially in Flatbush.

If you open and do not use The Flatbush Vadd, your establishment will be maligned by the Flatbush rabbis and their congregants encouraged not to go there.

So why do you get a second hashgacha.

Easy, many people don't trust the Flatbush Council.

Don't believe me check it out for yourselves. I heard this directly from a store owner.

 

if you want to know what a big extortionist goldberg is ask any store owner in flatbush that did not kick him out yet.

 

the only problem with the vaad of flatbush hashgacha is that it's not perforated and on softer paper.Its nopt worth the paper its written on no one in flatbush holds from it. goldberg has fooled the people of flatbush way too long

 

While we are on the subject of hashgachos, what about the other racketeer Rabbi Gornish who has his name on most of the store fronts of restaurants in Flatbush?

He is also part of this mafia too!!