Tuesday, October 16, 2007
Hasidic groups bring battle to courtroom
Two factions of a religious group each stage leadership elections and declare their slates the winners. At stake is control of millions of dollars worth of synagogues and other property.
Can a secular court decide who won based on legal standards like congregation bylaws? Or does the dispute involve religious issues that are beyond the court's jurisdiction?
Those questions are at the heart of a battle that Satmar Hasidic leaders in Kiryas Joel and Brooklyn have been waging for six years and will bring tomorrow before the Court of Appeals, the highest court in New York.
A battery of lawyers in Albany will argue two Satmar cases hinging on the same election conflict. That the seven judges have agreed to hear the appeal indicates they see a broad legal issue in it that rises above an isolated squabble.
"A central question in the matter is whether the leadership dispute can be decided by neutral principles of law," said Nelson Tebbe, a Brooklyn Law School professor specializing in religion and law.
Neutral principles, in this context, are those that can be decided "without resorting to religious doctrine," he said.
The cases stem from a power struggle within the Satmar Hasidic movement of ultra-Orthodox Jews. The sect is based in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn and has a fast-growing enclave of 20,000 in Orange County's Kiryas Joel.
One side is loyal to Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, the other to his younger brother, Rabbi Zalmen Teitelbaum. Each brother has been declared Satmar grand rebbe since their father — Moses Teitelbaum, the previous leader of the movement — died last year.
The two factions staged separate elections in 2001 to choose lay officers of the Williamsburg branch, the people controlling its substantial assets.
The result was two sets of "winners" — and a bitter court battle that began in Brooklyn and migrated to Orange County in 2005 as part of a dispute over control of the Kiryas Joel cemetery.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/NEWS/710150365
Two factions of a religious group each stage leadership elections and declare their slates the winners. At stake is control of millions of dollars worth of synagogues and other property.
Can a secular court decide who won based on legal standards like congregation bylaws? Or does the dispute involve religious issues that are beyond the court's jurisdiction?
Those questions are at the heart of a battle that Satmar Hasidic leaders in Kiryas Joel and Brooklyn have been waging for six years and will bring tomorrow before the Court of Appeals, the highest court in New York.
A battery of lawyers in Albany will argue two Satmar cases hinging on the same election conflict. That the seven judges have agreed to hear the appeal indicates they see a broad legal issue in it that rises above an isolated squabble.
"A central question in the matter is whether the leadership dispute can be decided by neutral principles of law," said Nelson Tebbe, a Brooklyn Law School professor specializing in religion and law.
Neutral principles, in this context, are those that can be decided "without resorting to religious doctrine," he said.
The cases stem from a power struggle within the Satmar Hasidic movement of ultra-Orthodox Jews. The sect is based in the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn and has a fast-growing enclave of 20,000 in Orange County's Kiryas Joel.
One side is loyal to Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, the other to his younger brother, Rabbi Zalmen Teitelbaum. Each brother has been declared Satmar grand rebbe since their father — Moses Teitelbaum, the previous leader of the movement — died last year.
The two factions staged separate elections in 2001 to choose lay officers of the Williamsburg branch, the people controlling its substantial assets.
The result was two sets of "winners" — and a bitter court battle that began in Brooklyn and migrated to Orange County in 2005 as part of a dispute over control of the Kiryas Joel cemetery.
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/NEWS/710150365
Comments:
We should learn from this how far we should go L'shaym Shamayim. If even when a Chillul Hashem is caused L'shaym Shamayim they're still going at it, Kal V'chomer when there's no Chilul Hashem how far we have to go to be M'kayaim L'shaym Shamayim!
How very proper it is to have 7 goyimg adjudicate TWO Grand Rabbis at once !! By the way, what is the CRC for? I thought that it is CENTRAL, and RABBINICAL, and a COUNCIL, for all of the USA AND CANADA. Maybe my earlier view was correct, that all it is good for is to print a Kol Koreh here and there and to give a mediocre hechsher on potato chips.
How can ANYONE be expected to use that Bais Din, when the very group that stands behind it won't stand in front of it? And so much for laughing at Chabad with their Didan Nofach; now Satmar AND Bobo are shmiling at gentile judges. As the old niggun goes - Money, Money, Money must be funny.
Now, according to the post, this Family Feud is going on for 6 years, while their father only passed on a year ago. What greater nachas can one give a parent than to fight over his property in his lifetime !
Please, Rabbis, Grand Rabbis, and Very Grand Rabbis !! Get your assets out of the gentile courts, if you wish to retain not only the little respect you still have in Yidden's eyes, but some basic Kvod Shomayim, if you really care that others shouldn't follow your example and run to Archaus every time they have a little argument, and if the word Rabbi is to retain a religious connotation, instead of being a term used for a disgruntled Jewish property owner. One of you may win, but in the end, BOTH will be losers, as will the rest of the Klal Yisroel that YOU, supposedly, care about.
Oy, when will some goy in Albany finally tell you that religion and wealth aren't the same thing, since when King Solomon said so you weren't listening.
How can ANYONE be expected to use that Bais Din, when the very group that stands behind it won't stand in front of it? And so much for laughing at Chabad with their Didan Nofach; now Satmar AND Bobo are shmiling at gentile judges. As the old niggun goes - Money, Money, Money must be funny.
Now, according to the post, this Family Feud is going on for 6 years, while their father only passed on a year ago. What greater nachas can one give a parent than to fight over his property in his lifetime !
Please, Rabbis, Grand Rabbis, and Very Grand Rabbis !! Get your assets out of the gentile courts, if you wish to retain not only the little respect you still have in Yidden's eyes, but some basic Kvod Shomayim, if you really care that others shouldn't follow your example and run to Archaus every time they have a little argument, and if the word Rabbi is to retain a religious connotation, instead of being a term used for a disgruntled Jewish property owner. One of you may win, but in the end, BOTH will be losers, as will the rest of the Klal Yisroel that YOU, supposedly, care about.
Oy, when will some goy in Albany finally tell you that religion and wealth aren't the same thing, since when King Solomon said so you weren't listening.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by 
: October 16, 2007 6:56 AM
: October 16, 2007 6:56 AM
It makes no difference who wins. The losers will assemble a mob and will find some obscure, arbitrary halachic justification for ignoring the court's decision and proceed to attack the winner. Hasn't that been the history of Satmar?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 7:49 AM
: October 16, 2007 7:49 AM
This is a big BIG chillul hashem and it wastes a lot of money shame on them............
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 8:34 AM
: October 16, 2007 8:34 AM
before you say shame on "them", why doesn't anyone try to figure out who the nirdaf is here. both sides did not bring this court case. One side did -- and when you figure that one out you will know how is the rodef and who is the nirdaf --and which side believes in involving goyim
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 11:36 AM
: October 16, 2007 11:36 AM
MAYBE THESE JUDGES SHOULD DECIDE IF MOSHIACH SHOULD COME SINCE THEY BELIVE IN THEM SOOOOOOOO HIGHLY SO ALL THESE TZOROS THAT HAS BEEN GOING AROUND JUST THESE PAST WEEKS AMONG OUR LOCAL NEIGHBORS SHOULD STOP ALREADY,SO RABBIS PLEASE PLEA BY THESE JUDGES WHILE ASKING FOR YOUR PROPATYS TO SEND THE REDEMSHIN THANK YOU
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 1:02 PM
: October 16, 2007 1:02 PM
well, its not their money they are wasting so why should they care, its you maaser money. And look where it went, to buy the rebbis $1000 esrogim and to pay for lawyers in this nonsense court case.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 1:59 PM
: October 16, 2007 1:59 PM
mida kneged mida, they deserve to lose all their money for the way they tortured the old rebbitzin
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 16, 2007 5:48 PM
: October 16, 2007 5:48 PM
Satmar is undoing itself, from A to Z, literally
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 18, 2007 12:02 AM
: October 18, 2007 12:02 AM
Both sides did not want to go to beis din.
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Comment Credit ---This article posted by : October 18, 2007 10:57 AM
: October 18, 2007 10:57 AM
