Saturday, February 21, 2009
Community members allege child abuse covered up among ultra-Orthodox
Leaders of the Bratslav Hasidic community in Safed have been covering up instances of physical and sexual abuse of children at school in the community, ostracizing anyone who wants to deal with the issue, several community members said recently.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, they said that in some cases families have been ripped apart, with the ostracized parents forced to cut off ties with their children.
"Everything blew up after seven children left heder [religious elementary school]," said one community member. "At first we didn't understand why, and then it turned out that they had been sexually abused. The parents wanted the matter to be dealt with, but they were warned that if the abuse became known it would harm their children's chances of finding a match. The parents got quiet and the children remained damaged because no one defended them." He and a former community member also said one of the teachers beat the children. Accusations of child abuse within the Bratslav community in Safed were first made public nine months ago.
One former community member said his family was forced to leave the community after his son was sexually harassed by a male teacher at his religious school. He said his son was receiving psychiatric help and taking medication to ease his mental distress, but refuses to go to the police and said he wants the issue resolved only by an ultra-Orthodox rabbinical court.
"Whoever goes to the establishment is a moser," he said, referring to the Talmudic term for informer. Jews who passed information to the authorities about other Jews have traditionally been treated harshly by persecuted Jewish communities, since in such cases denunciation could lead to death and destruction.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065121.html
Speaking on condition of anonymity, they said that in some cases families have been ripped apart, with the ostracized parents forced to cut off ties with their children.
"Everything blew up after seven children left heder [religious elementary school]," said one community member. "At first we didn't understand why, and then it turned out that they had been sexually abused. The parents wanted the matter to be dealt with, but they were warned that if the abuse became known it would harm their children's chances of finding a match. The parents got quiet and the children remained damaged because no one defended them." He and a former community member also said one of the teachers beat the children. Accusations of child abuse within the Bratslav community in Safed were first made public nine months ago.
One former community member said his family was forced to leave the community after his son was sexually harassed by a male teacher at his religious school. He said his son was receiving psychiatric help and taking medication to ease his mental distress, but refuses to go to the police and said he wants the issue resolved only by an ultra-Orthodox rabbinical court.
"Whoever goes to the establishment is a moser," he said, referring to the Talmudic term for informer. Jews who passed information to the authorities about other Jews have traditionally been treated harshly by persecuted Jewish communities, since in such cases denunciation could lead to death and destruction.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1065121.html
Comments:
Perhaps I am thinking of a different religion, but aren't religious Jews supposed to follow the laws of the country in which they live?
That would include criminal laws, one would think, including reporting of crimes.
That would include criminal laws, one would think, including reporting of crimes.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by 
: February 21, 2009 8:30 PM
: February 21, 2009 8:30 PM
To The Parents of the Children
Report the crime to the police. This crime
can not be dealt with by people who may
be friends with the pigs who abused the
child.
By not going to the police..... you are
allowing more children to be abused.
Report the crime to the police. This crime
can not be dealt with by people who may
be friends with the pigs who abused the
child.
By not going to the police..... you are
allowing more children to be abused.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 22, 2009 1:47 AM
: February 22, 2009 1:47 AM
"Dina D”malchisa Dina" only applies to a situation where id does not conflict with "Halacha", To hand over a fellow Jew to the so called mercy of the law Which we all know is not 100% perfect is a clear contradiction with "Halacha", We must curb our emotions in order to comply with "Halacha", the torah is based on common sense not who cries louder (if subject "A" enters a cave while subject "B" leaves the cave with a bloody knife, & subject "A" finds subject "C" dead due to a stabbing just happened, subject "B" cannot be convicted according to Halacha, our nations law will imply circumstantial evidence & convict subject "B" then give him the death penalty, carry it out, just to find out latter (or maybe never) he only tried to help & removed the knife trying to perform CPR etc…)
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 22, 2009 1:31 PM
: February 22, 2009 1:31 PM
You said:
""Dina D”malchisa Dina" only applies to a situation where it does not conflict with "Halacha", To hand over a fellow Jew to the so called mercy of the law Which we all know is not 100% perfect is a clear contradiction with "Halacha","
I will probably be stoned, or my comment will not appear, because of what I am about to say.
Just how good is Halacha as dispensed by today's jurists?
Women are trapped forever as Agunot, while the pig/men are free to remarry by getting a "heter meach rabannim." Where is the justice in that?
All one gets is "tsk, tsk."
A woman I loved more than anything in the world 30 years ago, but went off to marry a purveyor of temporary abodes, has been trapped for years, with nothing happening. Rabbis in Maryland go to shul, daven, go home, and life just goes on, but no one cares, at all.
Those who propose solutions are attacked as being against halacha. Yet these women suffer, forever.
Last I checked, it said a few times in the Torah not to lend money at interest, but guess what. A heter, and now all do.
But these women, no one cares.
So don't tell me about how some head rabbi of a yeshiva is going to do anything to a fellow rabbi who has been molesting, except send him off to another yeshiva.
It is...Disgusting.
""Dina D”malchisa Dina" only applies to a situation where it does not conflict with "Halacha", To hand over a fellow Jew to the so called mercy of the law Which we all know is not 100% perfect is a clear contradiction with "Halacha","
I will probably be stoned, or my comment will not appear, because of what I am about to say.
Just how good is Halacha as dispensed by today's jurists?
Women are trapped forever as Agunot, while the pig/men are free to remarry by getting a "heter meach rabannim." Where is the justice in that?
All one gets is "tsk, tsk."
A woman I loved more than anything in the world 30 years ago, but went off to marry a purveyor of temporary abodes, has been trapped for years, with nothing happening. Rabbis in Maryland go to shul, daven, go home, and life just goes on, but no one cares, at all.
Those who propose solutions are attacked as being against halacha. Yet these women suffer, forever.
Last I checked, it said a few times in the Torah not to lend money at interest, but guess what. A heter, and now all do.
But these women, no one cares.
So don't tell me about how some head rabbi of a yeshiva is going to do anything to a fellow rabbi who has been molesting, except send him off to another yeshiva.
It is...Disgusting.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 22, 2009 7:37 PM
: February 22, 2009 7:37 PM
In case of pedophilia, the perpetrator cannot be considered a g-d fearing Jew, because of the nature of the acts he commits.
Therefore, it is not "mosser" to turn him over to the police.
The victim of the pedophile acts knows for sure that they occured. Therefore, there is no issue of "lashon hara" involved. Lashon hara only applies if you heard it from someone and you cannot prove it.
As far as I understood, there is no possibility for Batey Din to deal with this sort of crime, so turn him to the police is the only possibility.
If a person suffered sexual abuse, he/she should go straight to the police, and the rabbis should support this solution, since it says "We biarta et ha ra mikirbecha".
Therefore, it is not "mosser" to turn him over to the police.
The victim of the pedophile acts knows for sure that they occured. Therefore, there is no issue of "lashon hara" involved. Lashon hara only applies if you heard it from someone and you cannot prove it.
As far as I understood, there is no possibility for Batey Din to deal with this sort of crime, so turn him to the police is the only possibility.
If a person suffered sexual abuse, he/she should go straight to the police, and the rabbis should support this solution, since it says "We biarta et ha ra mikirbecha".
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 23, 2009 4:35 AM
: February 23, 2009 4:35 AM
Bad things are happening those days to people who seemingly don’t deserve it, & it is true that “Halacha” today is not even closely regulated as 100+ years ago, but we do believe in “Hashem” & "Eis Din V'Eis Dayan" which means there is a din & there is a judge who sees everything down below "& believe you me" that down the road sometime/somewhere those "Baley Aveira" will get what they deserve, & for those who suffered I can only say "L'Fim Tzara Agra" = according to your pain will be your reward, do not spoil that reward with taking matters in your own hands against "Halacha", we, in this world, almost never know why things happen, but we do believe that everything has a reason unknown to us but to “Hashem” & everything he does is for the good (another Gilgol etc…), “BUT” every human has a “Bchira” (choice) & that is where "Eis Din V'Eis Dayan" comes in to play.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 23, 2009 6:21 AM
: February 23, 2009 6:21 AM
You said...
"In case of pedophilia, the perpetrator cannot be considered a g-d fearing Jew, because of the nature of the acts he commits"
This is the common excuse of folks who let emotional feelings rule over "Halacha",
according to the Torah, "pedophilia" is only an Aveirah that one committed which "Teshuva" helps, & there are even worse "Aveirahs" in the torah that people commit every day that does not permit to be Moser him/her for any reason just hope that he does "Teshuva", pedophilia is a "Toldah" of "Gily Aruyos", chilul hashem, lushon hurah, eating Treifahs are all at the same level according to "Halacha", are you considered a "not god fearing Jew" when cut of a "goy" on the road & the "goy" just sais look, those are Jews? (& you find every "Heter" why this Chilul Hashem you just did was so right).
Remember, "Halacha" & your feelings do contradict more then sometimes, & even you don’t like/understand it, you must be a god fearing Jew & abide with "Halacha" (regarding, "We biarta et ha ra mikirbecha", do your homework on the true meaning of it, rather then manipulating it to give you unfound "Heteirim").
"In case of pedophilia, the perpetrator cannot be considered a g-d fearing Jew, because of the nature of the acts he commits"
This is the common excuse of folks who let emotional feelings rule over "Halacha",
according to the Torah, "pedophilia" is only an Aveirah that one committed which "Teshuva" helps, & there are even worse "Aveirahs" in the torah that people commit every day that does not permit to be Moser him/her for any reason just hope that he does "Teshuva", pedophilia is a "Toldah" of "Gily Aruyos", chilul hashem, lushon hurah, eating Treifahs are all at the same level according to "Halacha", are you considered a "not god fearing Jew" when cut of a "goy" on the road & the "goy" just sais look, those are Jews? (& you find every "Heter" why this Chilul Hashem you just did was so right).
Remember, "Halacha" & your feelings do contradict more then sometimes, & even you don’t like/understand it, you must be a god fearing Jew & abide with "Halacha" (regarding, "We biarta et ha ra mikirbecha", do your homework on the true meaning of it, rather then manipulating it to give you unfound "Heteirim").
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 23, 2009 2:05 PM
: February 23, 2009 2:05 PM
Shoshi....
Sorry if i'm rude, but you have no clue in the meaning of "loshon Harah" & "rechilos"!
Sorry if i'm rude, but you have no clue in the meaning of "loshon Harah" & "rechilos"!
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 23, 2009 2:11 PM
: February 23, 2009 2:11 PM
...strange opinions people have here.
...strange interpretations of halacha...
...strange interpretations of halacha...
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 23, 2009 5:57 PM
: February 23, 2009 5:57 PM
There are severall reasons why there are no problems with "lashon hara" at hand when a victim names and shames a sexual abuser.
1) the abuser is a rasha, so he is not protected by laws on lashon hara
2) The victim knows for sure that the facts occurred and that the abuser is a rasha - there is no inyan of doubt if it happened
3) It serves to warn other people and to avoid more harm done
4) It would be "letoelet" even if it just served the healing process of the victim
1) the abuser is a rasha, so he is not protected by laws on lashon hara
2) The victim knows for sure that the facts occurred and that the abuser is a rasha - there is no inyan of doubt if it happened
3) It serves to warn other people and to avoid more harm done
4) It would be "letoelet" even if it just served the healing process of the victim
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 24, 2009 1:35 AM
: February 24, 2009 1:35 AM
True, a pedophile "is" part of a mental issue therefore he can not be regarded as a "Rasha" & it CAN be cured, for if not , the "torah" would not have mentioned it, (you must have a little insight on "Talmud" to understand my last sentence) regardless of what doctors & therapists say,(they are all destined to Gehenim, "Talmud") never the less "Halacha" still stands no matter which way you want to manipulate a "Heter" & you cannot "Mosir" another Jew (Rodef, Rasha, incurable, not god fearing, etc... etc... ) take in mind, I have no mercy on a pedophile that continues in his/her erroneous ways, & LET HASHEM DO HIS JOB but the only place in Jewish history & "Halachakly" supported that one was permitted to kill another Jew "WITHOUT A DIN TORAH" & even in today’s days (without the Bais Hamikdash), is someone who “Moserd” a fellow Jew, & it happened not long ago before the second world war) clearly, "A MASIR IS MORE EVIL THEN A PEDOPHILIA"
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 24, 2009 4:18 AM
: February 24, 2009 4:18 AM
...strange view...
so you would also let a mass murderer run free, provided he is a fellow jew?
You would let him kill you rather than call the police, even if you could?
so you would also let a mass murderer run free, provided he is a fellow jew?
You would let him kill you rather than call the police, even if you could?
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 24, 2009 9:48 AM
: February 24, 2009 9:48 AM
NO, a murderer falls in the catagory of "Habu L'Hurguch Haskeim L'Hurgoi" (Ther is alot more to that as well)
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 25, 2009 2:20 PM
: February 25, 2009 2:20 PM
Gilui arayos also. So I suppose, at least all homosexual abuse cases and all incestuous abuse cases are covered by it.
Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 25, 2009 5:19 PM
: February 25, 2009 5:19 PM
How can it be right not to "moser" a pedophile, if one may kill ("lehatsil otot be'nefsho"), according to Bavli Sanhedrin, a pursuer of a haver and also a pursuer of a betrothed girl? Is the pursue of a child no gilui arayot? It cannot be right!!!
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Comment Credit ---This article posted by : February 27, 2009 8:55 AM
: February 27, 2009 8:55 AM
